"Black and white are all I see" - MEANING

[Katabasis]

OK, here is the meaning of the lines

"Black
And
White are
All I see
In my infancy
Red and Yellow then came to me..."

This is an excerpt from the Richard Cavendish book 'The Black Arts' (ignore the corny name, it's coverage is fairly thorough, especially in the alchemical section).
The following quote is on page 179, in the section concerning ALCHEMY:

"...The early authorities generally said that there were four main stages in the work, distinguished by the appearance of four colours - black, white, yellow and red - in the material in the vessel. This sequence of colour changes appears in the oldest known book on alchemy, Physika kai Mystika (The Physical and the Mystical) written by Bolos of Mendes in Egypt about 200 BC."

OK, for those who want to check out the book, it was published in 1967 by Routledge and Kegan Paul Ltd.

I've seen the information elsewhere, but this was the only place I could find 'hard' evidence so you guys wouldn't think I was making it up.

If any of you want to know more about Alchemy and the occult and/or it's (possible) relation to Tool, just start a thread or post some questions on this thread.
I'm sure there's a lot of posters like myself who are into the occult who could help you out.

:)

[RRed]

Intersting... I was just doing some research on this very thing today... kinda of out of coincidence... but like I've said nothing is coincidence.

For some possible light on this allusion to "red and yellow" you should do some research on Dr. Edwin D. Babbitt. He was a very well trained cabalist, I believe he also studied w/ Crowley as well, but he theorized on the Kabbalistic symbolism of colors.... In fact scientifically this is a really interesting topic actually because certain colors resonate at certain freguencies as to translate a particular color back on the brain.. Anyhow... as far a the Sephiras of the Cabala... red and yellow are very significat colors... Represent Fire which is necessary to ascend correctly through the Sephiras... This is something that has really made an impression upon me as far understanding Lateralus as of late... especially Reflection, Lateralus, and Triad..

RRed

[endorphins]

Carl Jung identifies red,white,yellow, and black as the four components of the alchemcial quaternity. Quarternity is symbolically understood (by Jung) as a representing the complete Self. It is the aim of the alchemist to integrate all four equally to produce gold.

"This is confirmed by the the 'Rosarium': 'Our stone is from the four elements.' The same applies to the 'aurum philosophicum': 'In the gold the four elements are contained in equal proportions.' The fact is that the four colours... represent the transition from trinity to quaternity and thus to the squared circle..."

Jung also gives his explanation for the squaring of the circle:

"Unity is represented by a circle and the four elements by a square. The production of one from four is the result of a process of distillation and sublimation which takes the so-called 'circular' form: the distillate is subjected to sundry distillations so the the 'soul' or 'spirit' shall be extracted in its purest state. The product is generally called the 'quintessence,' though this is by no means the only name for the ever-hoped-for and never-to-be-discovered 'One.' It has, as the alchemists say, a 'thousand names,' like the prima materia."

"Soul and spirit must be separated from the body, and this is equivalent to death...the spirit (or spirit and soul) is the ternarius or number three which must first be separated from its body and, after the purification of the latter, infused back into it. Evidently the body is the fourth...where the circle re-emrges from a triangle set in a square. This circular figure, together with the Uroborus-the dragon devouring itself tail first- is the basic mandala of alchemy."

The mandala, for Jung, is another symbol of the archetype of Self. That is the reason why a yogi, while meditating, would focus on mandala imagery to achieve higher states of self awareness. Jung spent more energy on alchemy in his lifetime because he was preoccupied with the process of circumnabuation. For Jung, the early alchemists were projecting their desire to achieve the inner knowlege of the Self (the 'One'). Jung guided his patients in similar endeavors by certain methods that approached and confronted various psyche constiuents in their dreams, namely the archetypes of the collective unconscious. It was his belief that the only way to grasp the Self was through the pieces, one could say, and then begin intergrating them into one by way of individuation. This is first atempted by recognition of the Shadow archetype. And the process is detailed, but I won't go any further. Read "Man and his Symbols" for an easy introduction.


Even more interesting, (and I'm sure this will spark a thousand connections among all the songs on Lateralus for the reader/listener), is Jung's quotation of an alchemist by name of Maier who interperets the ternarius differently. He says (and its in the orgininal Latin, translated by Jung in to German, and yet again into English),

"Similarily the philosophers maintain that the quadrangle is to be reduced to a triangle, that is, to body, spirit, and soul. These three appear in three colours which precede the redness: the body, or earth, in Saturnine blackness; the spirit in lunar whiteness, like water; and the soul, or air, in solar yellow. Then the triangle will be perfect, but in its turn it must change into a circle, that is into unchangeable redness."

Jung adds: "Here the fourth is fire, and an everlasting fire."


All quotes taken from Jung's "Individual Dream Symbolism in Relation to Alchemy. (1935)"




"ALL THINGS DO LIVE IN THREE / BUT IN FOUR THEY MERRY BE."

[RRed]

Nice post Endorphins... interesting enough there are many connections here with Jungs idea of the representations of colors as well as the Tree of Sephiroth.. especially the many triad relationships... and the references to 'the blackness' and the 'lunar whiteness' seems to be connected, as I see it, to the Grudge and also Reflection.. as well as the idea of the Hidden sephira Daath.. which in conjuction with the theory that the ascension into Daath transforms one into Malkuth to become complete in the last triad... Daath... darkness???? abyss??? Reflection..transformation into 'Kingdom'... Malkuth.. Lateralus???? Notice the refernce to 'bath in the fountain' do some research on the 'fountain of wisdom'....

This leads one to believe that a true introspective pursuit may in fact lead to the discovery of 'universals'.... Not sure if Jung was aware of the nature of Kabbala... But the more one does research on things such as this... relating to the over all consciousness of a human being.. it appears that the great inovators of thought often times generate very similar theories... I mean look at the color representation of Chakras and some of the other color representations with in the Kabbala... interesting.. it leaves one to wonder..

RRed

[tainednarf1014]

Nice theory but did you take into consideration that Black and White are all you see in your infancy. Its not a proven theory but you will find it in most parenting books. The ability to percieve color comes in the later part of the first year of a babies life. So maybe this is a metephor stating that he was once restriced to seeing black/white but over time he started seeing red/yellow enabling him to see the whole picture. His thoughts were immature and naive in his infancy but overtime they matured.

[saut]

Another note on the colors black, white, red, and yellow (sorry if I'm reviving an old thread):

In much of Native American mythology, those colors represent the four cardinal points; north, south, east, and west. Each direction and color represents something.

Black represents the West. West represents intropsection, reflection, and often death as well.

White represents the North. North represents wisdom; knowledge.

Red represents the South. South represents passion; emotions.

Yellow represents the East. East represents the dawn of a new day; inspiration.

Using these symbolic meanings, we can arrive at the following interpretation of "Black then white are all I see in my infancy. Red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me."

Maynard begins his journey with black and then white - meaning introspection and reflection, then perhaps this brings about a gain in wisdom; knowledge.

Continuing on his journey, he encounters red and yellow - meaning passion and emotions, then the dawn of a new day - inspiration.

Looking at the rest of the lyrics in the song, this interpretation makes a lot of sense.

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines."

In the above lines, we see introspection.

"I embrace my desire to
I embrace my desire to
Feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
To feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,"

In the above lines, we see he embraces his desire - passion, emotion, red - to feel inspired - dawn on a new day, inspiration, yellow.


Summarizing: Maynard begins with black then white - introspection and then wisdom. He ends with red and yellow - passion and inspiration; enlightenment.


I hope that I have shed some new light on this song...

[endless_nameless]

Wow. I always thought it was just an extension on the theme of constantly learning and changing throughout our lives i.e the first step, because in the beginning babies can only see in black & white, but then their entire world changes as their eyes start recognising colours, which opens up millions of new possibilties to explore.
This could be a metaphor for the way our thoughts and ideas are in a state of constant change, and this the first time in our lives we experience such an extreme shift.

[dawn]

Black and white...yes and no...


Red and yellow...'the beauty of gray'...

[tainednarf1014]

Wow. I always thought it was just an extension on the theme of constantly learning and changing throughout our lives i.e the first step, because in the beginning babies can only see in black & white, but then their entire world changes as their eyes start recognising colours, which opens up millions of new possibilties to explore.
This could be a metaphor for the way our thoughts and ideas are in a state of constant change, and this the first time in our lives we experience such an extreme shift.


Did you read my reply, apparently not because you pretty much just said everything I did in a nutshell. Oh well, its nice to know someone else was thinking the same thing I was.

When I try to dechipher the metaphor's maynard use's I start with the most primitive theory I can think of and then work my way up to the crazy stuff until it feels write. But I always try not to over analyze and look for something weird or in relation to psychology

[ThreePillars]

Nice theory but did you take into consideration that Black and White are all you see in your infancy. Its not a proven theory but you will find it in most parenting books. The ability to percieve color comes in the later part of the first year of a babies life. So maybe this is a metephor stating that he was once restriced to seeing black/white but over time he started seeing red/yellow enabling him to see the whole picture. His thoughts were immature and naive in his infancy but overtime they matured.

Infants can only see two tone. Which is why you will find many mobiles etc. in a strong brown white combination. Red is the first color that comes into perception and then comes yellow... So I think the foundation of what is actually being said in these lyrics is just what he means. You all don't seem to be digging into what Maynards lyrics reveal, but rather alchemies relation to the growing mind when released from the womb... Which is by all means relevant but somewhat off the purpose at hand.

[crow011]

"Black
And
White are
All I see

:)

= the only two races of people MJK seems to think matter . . .

what a racist . . .

he forgot about chinese people . . .

oh, no, wait - doesnt he go something like RED AND YELLOW THEN CAME TO BE? . . .

well, that would be american indians and chinese people . . .

lets lynch MJK 4 he is a racist lol . . . kthxbye . . .

crow011 . . .

[crow011]

im pretty sure i cheapened this thread with my last post . . .

sorry . . .

crow011 . . .

[Temporarily juxtaposed]

man u guys have some awesome theories and u really research that shit... the way i interpreted it was that when u are young all u see is right and wrong (black and white are all i see in my infancy) then when ur older u see that are grey areas and it dusnt always come down to wats right or wrong(red and yellow then cam to be)
which is more or less the same interpretation endless_nameless had.

[MrMcPheezy]

'the beauty of gray'


Is an awesome song.

[Echoghost]

Nice theory but did you take into consideration that Black and White are all you see in your infancy. Its not a proven theory but you will find it in most parenting books. The ability to percieve color comes in the later part of the first year of a babies life. So maybe this is a metephor stating that he was once restriced to seeing black/white but over time he started seeing red/yellow enabling him to see the whole picture. His thoughts were immature and naive in his infancy but overtime they matured.
That is exactly what I was going to say when I saw the title of the thread.

[saut]

Another note on my Native American symbolism take on things -- I read in an article somewhere (don't remember where) that Maynard was interested in Native American mythology.

[saut]

My interpretation is validated:

In the song "Lateralus" you refer to the origins of perceptual observation i.e. "Black then white are all I see in my infancy", "red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me, lets me see". Again, is this more of a metaphor or are you being literal? The reason I ask is because human developmental reasoning is one of my areas of research. That is, to what degree are we born with human propensities for perception, speech, responses, etc., and to what extent are these learned behaviours?

MK: "I use the archetype stories of North American aboriginals and the themes or colours which appear over and over again in the oral stories handed down through generations. Black, white, red, and yellow play very heavily in aboriginal stories of creation."


Full text of the interview here: http://cdicarlo.com/paper_04maynard.htm

And in case you missed it, this is what the colors represent in Native American mythology:

In much of Native American mythology, those colors represent the four cardinal points; north, south, east, and west. Each direction and color represents something.

Black represents the West. West represents intropsection, reflection, and often death as well.

White represents the North. North represents wisdom; knowledge.

Red represents the South. South represents passion; emotions.

Yellow represents the East. East represents the dawn of a new day; inspiration.

Using these symbolic meanings, we can arrive at the following interpretation of "Black then white are all I see in my infancy. Red and yellow then came to be, reaching out to me."

Maynard begins his journey with black and then white - meaning introspection and reflection, then perhaps this brings about a gain in wisdom; knowledge.

Continuing on his journey, he encounters red and yellow - meaning passion and emotions, then the dawn of a new day - inspiration.

Looking at the rest of the lyrics in the song, this interpretation makes a lot of sense.

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines."

In the above lines, we see introspection.

"I embrace my desire to
I embrace my desire to
Feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
To feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,"

In the above lines, we see he embraces his desire - passion, emotion, red - to feel inspired - dawn on a new day, inspiration, yellow.


Summarizing: Maynard begins with black then white - introspection and then wisdom. He ends with red and yellow - passion and inspiration; enlightenment.

[Mercurious]

Evolution of light/vision goes something like:

Black
White
Red
Yellow
Green
Blue (A color some still cannot see) Blue is on a different gene than the other colors.

Advertisers know that primary colors activate direct perception because they are so primitive/familiar to the psyche.

Primal images/shapes are:

Circle/Sphere
Triangle/Cone
Square/Cube

Our perception of matter is always one of these or a variation of.

All life forms that evolve have a psyche(soul) that evolves as well. That soul begins in Black and evolved until we could " see the light".

Blue is the latest color humans can see.
There is no mention of Blue in history before a certain time.
The "Nile" River means "Black" river, but we now know it has always been Blue. There was a time when half the people couldn't see the Blue.

A psyche of Magic dominated our Black, White and Red primal perception period.

Worship dominated the next period with the addition of Green and Yellow.

A scientific psyche is part of the Blue.

I don't believe it is, but the poem could be referring to the collective evolutionary ideas of mankind.

Even though we can see Blue doesn't mean the Black is dead in us.


P.S. China is part of the white Race. It goes, China, Russia, Europe, over the berring straight to North America, Mexico, South America.
The "Native Americans" were primal Europeans who evolved in a more Natural environment but were not recognized, so they were mistreated when we crossed the ocean.

Black Race is Africa, Egypt, Arab, India etc.

Sorry for the ramble.:)

[dawn]

All this analysis is fun and all, but black and white are all that you see in your infancy. Eventually, when red and yellow start coming to you, it helps you see.

[Janos]

!!! WORSHIP !!!

This Maynard guy is either seriously disturbed or seriously generally.