the golden spiral

[munkcus]

im sure someone has mentioned this... but i didnt feel like looking for it....

has anyone noticed the way the song lateralus is sung?

black = 1
then = 1
white are = 2
all i see = 3
in my infancy = 5

etc... its the syllabels (sp?)

the fibonacci sequence friends...

spiral out and keep going.... might be related to the golden spiral.... definately not a coincidence

[x7 Lateralus 7x]

i wish i knew what u were saying, plz explain,

1
1
2
3
<---is it cuz it jumps a syllable O.o im lost man
5

and this golden spiral thing too

[mud_soul]

1+1 = 2
2+1 = 3
3+2 = 5
5+3 = 8

etc etc

[x7 Lateralus 7x]

uh....and what are we going to do w/ these #'s? u added them up, and thats all i got out of it

[Lord Fongo]

I'm pretty convinced on the idea that "swing on the spiral" in Lateralus is referring to the golden spiral. Check it out. I'm sure several people may have already visited this place and found this out but...what the hell...

http://www.crystalinks.com/sacred_geometry.html

[devilish]

It seems to me that the fibonacci sequence in Lateralus expands and then contracts again.

Thus:

Black (1)
Then (1)
White are (2)
All I see (3)
In my infancy (5)
Red then yellow then came to be (8)
Reaching out to me lets me see (8 - anomaly? Or just good song writing...)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn beyond the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)

Okay, so it repeats one number in the sequence, and it doesn't quite get back to the beginning again, but the sequence definitely seems to be following the fibonacci principles, except that it gets so far and then contracts once more rather than increasing to infinity (which let's face it, is a little impractical in a song).

Interesting to note how pleasing the sequence of syllables expressed using the fibonacci sequence is to the ear, it lends a rhythmic quality to the words that is unusual and yet quite natural and familiar.

The second time this phrase pattern appears in the song it almost has a better sequencing, and looks like it might extend it too, but it doesn't quite manage it.

As above for the first few lines:
(1)
(1)
(2)
(3)
(5)
(8)
Reaching out to me, let's me see there is so much more (13)
And beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities (17)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn outside the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)

As you can see, second time around in the song the sequence is much more expanding-contracting fibonacci-like, in that there is no annoying repetition of the 8-syllable phrase in the sequence to get in the way, so the only anomaly the second time around is the sudden appearance of the number 17, which to my mind can justifiably appear as an oddity as it functions as the rotation point for going back down the fibonacci sequence again. Shame it didn't rotate around the number 21 though, the next number in the fibonacci sequence. Unless someone can point out a special feature of the number 17, either in and of itself or preferrably how it relates to other numbers in the sequence as a ratio.

Devilish

[Neil]

It definitely IS about the golden spiral.

Devilish, the 'anomaly' about the number 8 being repeated is not actually an anomaly.

I read this on a website about Sacred Geometry:


If you divide a straight line so that about 61% of it is one one side and 39% on the other, you will find that the ration of the large portion to the small is the same as the ratio of the overall line to the large portion. Rectangles made with these proportions can be subdivided endlessly. This self-mirroring proportion was essential to the art and architecture of the Greeks; it is very pleasing to the mind's eye and was used extensively, including in the design of the Parthenon.

In the 15th century an Italian named Fibonacci discovered that if you add 1 to itself, then 2 to 1, then the sum 3 to 2, and the sum 5 to 3, etc., you end up with a series of numbers 1,1,2,3,5,8,13, etc. The ratios of these, one to another, dance around and approach more and more closely the golden mean of .6 to 1.

These ratios describe the most efficient way of packaging spirals about themselves IN TWO DIMENSIONS; you will see them in the center of a sunflower. If you count the spirals going one way and they add up to13, there will be either 8 or 21 spirals going the other way. Moving your perspective in or out to about 2/3rds of the original size will move you to the next level of spirals.

I experimented with adding up more than two dimensions, that is, with the numbers the universe would use to construct 3, 4, 5 and more dimensions. I discovered that at 8 we will find resonance if we keep adding only from the second and third terms, and that the ratios of the terms viz-a-viz each other (in different sequences of numbers) will approach the golden mean, just at they do within sequences. This tells me the universe naturally resonates RIGHT AT THE CHANGE from the 3rd to the 4th dimension, AND IT RESONATES IN STEPS OF EIGHT.

This is why we hear octaves, I suppose, and why chemical properties return to similarity after additions of eight electrons (as seen in the periodic table). It also is very relevant to the I Ching, and therefore to this list, and Terence's idea of a "resonance" in Time made of it's own self-mirrored "modular hierarchies" (since termed fractals).

There's alot more detail on the page, which is at: http://fusionanomaly.net/goldenmean.html

So I think Lateralus is definitely about golden spirals, and reaching a higher plane of reality.

[Windir]

1 and 1 are 11...

[Amethyst Believer]

Interesting to note how pleasing the sequence of syllables expressed using the fibonacci sequence is to the ear, it lends a rhythmic quality to the words that is unusual and yet quite natural and familiar.

For a long time mathematics (in particular series and progressions) has been seen as being closely related to musical harmony. Think Pythagoras. I see no reason why this concept cannot be extended to rhythm and form. A sequence like Fibbonacci's is too complicated to be easily conciously recognised when listening to music, but at some level its significance must be realised. Just a thought.

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

uh....and what are we going to do w/ these #'s? u added them up, and thats all i got out of it

... The Fibonacci sequence deals with the number phi (look it up, the 'divine proportion') and its method is by add the sum of the previous two digits together (start with 1, 1+0=1, 1+1=2...so on)... you should have learned this in like 6th

[AllforUnity]

Yeah...l'm pretty sure they teach you that in middle school.




Maybe he was homeschooled.

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

haha... i was in GT and i learned it in 6th so thats about right...but that's not the issue. Even more off topic, aren't homeschooled people supposed to be smarter (as well as less social...)?

[brilliantname]

Wow.
Cool.
Maynard's
a genius.
Thanks for revieling
this to me; very cool stuff indeed.

[Chris_Brightwell]

Wow.
Cool.
Maynard's
a genius.
Thanks for revieling
this to me; very cool stuff indeed.
1 ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 5 ... 9?

[Luna Galapogos]

I seem quite social, and I knew of the sequence. Now that I have laid that down, I must say that I was homeschooled up until I got to ninth grade. I was far ahead of the game compared to everyone at school except for maybe one or two that I have met. Yes, I must say, I haven't cared to compare homeschooled kids and kids that have been sentenced to public schools, but I think that public schools corrupt children. They come home compelled to rebel and swear and all that sort of thing. I'm not saying that homeschooled children are great, and that they never do anything wrong by any means because I've had my share of times when I wasn't fabulous to my parents. I do feel that you needlessly attacked the practice of homeschooling however. Oh well, maybe I'm just defensive.

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

uh... public school teaches you social skills. Also, the fact that some do swear, etc, when they get home is basically just because they break under pressure. Either way you are gonna get programmed some way or another, whether it be by your parents, or peers. The question is, is everybody going to be like your parents when you get into the real world? By the way, I'm only in 8th and I've been public schooled so far, hasn't really gotten me anywhere i don't want to be

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

I'm pretty sure the "home-schooled" thing was a joke anyways. It is statistically proven that home-schooled kids do better on the standardized tests. Reason being it's a one-on-one thing. But I get 95%+ on those tests anyways, and I'd rather have
a place to meet friends, as opposed to staying inside a house most of the day.

[brilliantname]

I started taking homeschool and now I don't have a social life. (but i didn't have one to begin with)

[brilliantname]

1 ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ... 5 ... 9?

Wow, you must be bored...



(I was wondering who would notice that first)

[devilish]

Wow, you must be bored...



(I was wondering who would notice that first)

"a genius" is four syllables...(!)

Devilish

[brilliantname]

It depends on how you pronounce it.

I say "jeen-yus".

I guess it could be pronounced "jeen-ee-us".

Whatever.

[Chris_Brightwell]

"a genius" is four syllables...(!)
Not according to Webster:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=genius

[Jesca3001]

Stop Ripping Homeschooled kids!!
<~~~~~is one...
Ge-Ne-Us thats 3, isn't it?

[Chris_Brightwell]

Stop Ripping Homeschooled kids!!
<~~~~~is one...
Ge-Ne-Us thats 3, isn't it?
Main Entry: ge·nius
Pronunciation: 'jEn-y&s, 'jE-nE-&s

Either/or, I suppose -- I've never heard it pronounced w/ three in normal conversation, though.

[brilliantname]

It depends on how you pronounce it.

I say "jeen-yus".

I guess it could be pronounced "jeen-ee-us".

Whatever.

[brilliantname]

You tell me.

[clown137]

k seriously, back to the subject, it was intresting

[AllforUnity]

Homeschooled kids are retards.

[brilliantname]

Fuck you.

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

hahaha I just started a flame... cool

[ÆnimaticEnigma]

nvm AllforUnity helped... thanks ;-) ahh those homeschooled kids...

[Leon5465]

Black (1)
Then (1)
White are (2)
All I see (3)
In my infancy (5)
Red then yellow then came to be (8)
Reaching out to me lets me see (8 - anomaly? Or just good song writing...)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn beyond the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)


It actually goes:

Black (1)
Then (1)
White are (2)
All I see (3)
In my infancy (5)
Red then yellow then came to be (8)
Reaching out to me (5)
lets me see (3)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn beyond the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)

You combined 2 of the lines. This way, there is no repetition and it makes more sense. Also, in the song there is a clear break between the 2 lines.

[Leon5465]

(1)
(1)
(2)
(3)
(5)
(8)
Reaching out to me, let's me see there is so much more (13)
And beckons me to look through to these infinite possibilities (17)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn outside the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)

You were way off here... you have to feel the music... you can't just manipulate it to fit the number of syllables you're expecting.

Black (1)
Then (1)
White are (2)
All I see (3)
In my infancy (5)
Red and yellow then came to be (8)
Reaching out to me (5)
let's me see (3)
There is (2)
So (1)
Much (1
More and (2)
Beckons me (3)
To look through to these (5)
Infinite Possibilities (8)
As below so above and beyond I imagine (13)
Drawn outside the lines of reason (8)
Push the envelope (5)
Watch it bend (3)

There is a clear break between each line. And the sequence makes perfect sense.

[Leon5465]

Err sorry for reviving this... I did a search for Fibonacci and didn't realize how old this thread was.