Which Version? =)

[Andorion]

Which version of Third Eye do you like more - the studio or Salival one? Does the live version remind you of hearing it at a show, and the euphoria you undoubtedly felt? =)

If I had to choose, I'd definitely pick the studio version. I'm of the opinion that when a song is put on an album and released, something special happens to it - regardless of how many variations there were before it was recorded and regardless of how many variations there are after, the EXACT version that's on the album is special - it's THE master.

~Berj

[Peon]

I think like Pushit, people wanted a less metallic and more emotional version of the song.

[RandyPan]

I disagree. I think that songs are in essence and by definition a fluid medium -- constantly changing and revealing themselves in new ways. Whatever day that Tool finalized the Ænima version was how Third Eye existed at that moment. And on the day that the version of Third Eye that appears on Salival was recorded, it appeared in another light. My point is that one version of a song is not more definitive or better than another. I enjoy both versions of the song at different times and for different reasons.
The live version has the Timothy Leary intro which I love. Not to knock Bill Hicks (I mean my username is RandyPan) but with the Hicks intro the song seems to be more drug oriented, while Leary's intro suggests an opening of consciousness that doesn't necessarily preclude the use of drugs. The studio version, on the other hand, is the first version I heard and therefore it has sentimental value. It may sound sappy to think of a song having sentimental value but Ænima changed the way I approached my life and the lives of those around me just as Nirvana's In Utero did 3 or 4 years earlier.
I really like both versions of the song. I think all songs not just Tool songs should be considered in an evolutionary light. That's the fun of music.

[Cracker]

I prefer the Salival version by far. I don't like the studio version at all.

Its funny, of the 15 minutes, I only like around 3 minutes of it, but i like it so much that its worth enduring the rest for it :)

[Andy DV]

Unfortunately I must respect your opinion, Cracker, but if you're "enduring" any part of a song to get to the cool part, you're going about it all the wrong way. The beauty of TOOL is the experience, not just rocking out at certain parts of the songs or having it on in the background. For me, every album is one long song, especially Lateralus.

Anyway, I'd have to say I prefer the Salival version, mostly because of the great Timothy Leary intro (Bill Hicks is great, too) and Maynard's raw emotion during the second "Came out to watch you play..." verse.

[Cracker]

I agree with you Andy, but I don't agree that every tool song should be listened to like that. For instance, Opiate and Undertow, although great for what they are, aren't really feats of genius, with each song seperate from the next.

[shonky1]

Salival version does it for me. I feel the salival version more, I think because it is live and obviously it has been shared with many people at that time. The studio version, which I still love, doesn't have the same energy, it isn't being projected out to an audience, its being projected into a wall of a studio. I can put myself there, at the concert, there is no better feeling than being at a tool concert, the love, the energy, the emotion, the enlightenment.

[ragna16]

I enjoy the Salival Third Eye and Pushit much more (which says alot, considering how they're my two favorite songs)

The emotion is grand, they both finish with that final burst of energy and then a relaxing post climax breath.

My favorite part of third eye is how in the Salival version you can hear better and with more feeling the lines about blue 2nd sons, memory holes, crows, peoty, darkness, and sand, the real core of the song, which is less understandable and emotional in Aenima.

[The Border Line]

I'm afraid I have to go with the live version. The first time I popped in Salival, (having never been to a Tool concert at that point) Third Eye just completely blew me away. I couldn't figure out whether the song was live or studio until I heard the crowd screaming with euphoria in the middle of the song.

Even now, the live version on the record just holds so much more emotion and raw energy. The dynamics between the bass and guitar during the "Open my eyes... open my eyes... open my eyes... open them..." and the surrounding interludes is just so incredibly awe inspiring, and it quite simply isn't captured in the same way on the record.

Indeed, Tool is an incredible live band.

[4degreeswarmer]

i love the salival version... it's so complex, twisting in and out and around itself. you can't just take it to a certain point, or stop it at a certain point... it just isn't third eye unless you listen to it in its entirety. that's what i love about Tool. any other band, i'd be bored after 2 minutes into a 15 minute song. but with tool, i can't stop listening. it takes my mind into this alternate reality where i feel creative and meaningful and everything seems to fit together. a few weeks ago i wrote what i was feeling while i listened to third eye... when i looked at it later on, it was this weirdly twisted description of falling through an unending abyss, with blackness all around... pulsating colors in tune with this music that was like a salvation. maynard's voice weaving in and out of it all...
it's an awesome experience, and i saw it live a few weeks ago in Knoxville... i'll never forget it.

[cradled]

I see a lot of people think that the song is more emotional live. I agree to a point.

The last part of the song (prying open my third eye) doesn't seem to have the power that the studio version has. The whole build-up doesn't seem to be as effective either. Someone said that each song is fluid, and that's something I agree with. All of my songs that I've written are basically improvisations of a couple riffs. A lot of songs that I've written are fairly long (7-9 minutes), but that's because I had to cycle through the ideas and make sure I said everything what I wanted to say.

With that in mind, I think Tool says everything in the live version that was said in the studio version, but there still seems to be something missing at the end.

The live version of Pushit kicks the studio version right in the ass, though.

[4degreeswarmer]

the climax is not at the end, the climax is in the middle. 'so good to see you....' i interpret to be the high peak in the song, with everything previous building up to it, and everything afterwards calming down.

that's what the beauty is--it defies formulaic construction.

[dork]

The first time i heard third eye was an mp3 that only went up to like four or five mins long, so when i bought the cd i was blown away! that song is my favorite by far. I honestly can't decide which one is better though. basically it all depends on what you like about the song. For me its kind of rotational, week by week ill like one more than the other... yeah

[Evan]

I feel that it must be noted here that musically, the two versions are not really that different. The intros of course are different, but they're almost exactly the same otherwise.
However, there is definitely a very different feeling that I get from each of them. Because I have never seen third eye live, when I listen to that song I start imagining what it must be like to have that experience, and I feel that same sort of energy that I felt when I saw them live this summer.
The studio version fits in so nicely with the rest of aenima that I have a very different experience from the live version. It's more like a push into some other realm as aenima (the cd) comes to a close, while the live version I appreciate more by itself.
Personally, I enjoy the feeling from the live version more, because I love that kind of energy. laters

[bonny]

they are both excellent but i have to go with the salival version. i love the energy,the emotion and the sound of mjk's voice on the live one. it gives me chills every time. it also evokes images of the show at the spectrum when i finally got to hear it live. what an awesome song!

[passenger#44213]

to just listen to the live version and then the studio version, live is deffinatly far superior, but i think that when you listen to the whole album before hand aenima is the best because the build up of the the songs before hand and the build up again of third eye to the end of the song always leaves me wanting so much more, like a 20 min third eye.

[Alice In Chains]

I enjoy the Salival version more. It's probably my favourite piece of music I've ever heard along with Forty Six & 2. I love how the song twists and turns and how the structure while inconsistent to the usual for rock songs fits perfectly for this track. Unbelievable, I would give anything to have been there at the time.

Cheers

[David]

I like the Salival version better because Adam's guitar work sounds a lot better to me, you can hear more of the subtle licks clearer. I also think Danny's drumming sounds better too. The one negative is the shortened ending on the Salival version, but I bet that would kill the vocal cords after awhile.

[flipmojo]

I'm definitely going with the studio version. The live one sounds good and has a raw edge but the studio version DEFINES the song with its crisp sound and clockwork timing. Also, I would rather hear it live in person than listen to it live on a recording.

[observer]

They both have their pros: the studio version with the second guitar playing the crazy whatever scale that is and all the little background subtlties that they put in all of their songs make it a much more textural, headphone song, while the dynamics of Adams playing and especially the full use of his wah during the close of the song make you just toss your arms up in applaud "Yeeeaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!"

[Patient5602]

having heard this song live (indy 9/21/02), and taking nothing away from the studio version, i feel that the salival cut of this song is the superior version...i can feel the song flow through me...it's very powerful...

[skywarp94]

The funny thing for me is that I never really dug the Aenima version of Third Eye, but once I heard it on Salival it quickly became one of my favorite Tool songs. I think I have to agree with what somebody said above - that you can hear a lot of things more clearly in the live version. I think the Aenima version has more of a raw sound, and on Salival a lot of the parts just seem a little "cleaner", which lets you hear how beautiful the song really is. I do go back and listen to the Aenima version a lot more often than I used to, so I think this is a case where hearing an incredible live version can enhance the experience of going back and listening to the studio version.

[ninetynine]

For about the last two months I had been listening to Salival because i had lost Aenima. And third eye was such an experience on salival that when i put in the studio version it seamed a little flat and not as intense. Of course i had always loved the studio version and the live version but the live seems to have allot of emotion that isn't on the album version. So my opinion would be the live version.

[Killer Of God]

I think it all depends on if you've heard the Salival version at an actual concert. The best live version i saw was in Beaumont Texas. (Yee Haa) They put on the Timothy Leary intro and then followed with the Bill Hicks quotes. The crowd went nuts when the "I Think Drugs Have Done Some Good Things" line came on. I just started to laugh my ass off. I love those two quotes.

[TailOfDogma]

as in the salival version of "pushit," the passion of maynard's voice pushes the live version over the edge. the entire song drips with emotion, as he were pleading to be raised to the higher level that comes with the opening of the third eye. i personally find myself longing to hear some of the live effects when im listening to "thid eye" on Ænima and am almost disappointed when i dont hear them.

my pick goes to the live version 150%.

[4th Eye]

The live versions of both Third Eye and Pushit have more those little soundeffects which maybe makes them better. It's hard to compare Third Eyes because only thing that really differs is the intro, but live version of Pushit is almost compeletely a new song. "...so we could hopefully kind of see it almost for the first time..."

However, I think the Salival versions are better..

[Smokin joe]

Hate to keep repeating what everyone said already, but I definitely like this song version better. It reminds me of when I saw them just recently and they actually played the song. I almost shit myself when Maynard goes:

"And now a word from our sponsor"

"Think for yourself, question authority...."

As a TOOL fan, I love that song, and it was so amazing. The two visual screens had some crazy visuals, most realistic trip-like visuals i've ever seen (other than tripping... :)

joe

[Sarcasm]

I perfer the Salival version to the Ænima version because the Leary sample is genius.

[TheInsideSource]

The live version is superior. Why? Need I explain...

[Sinagast]

There are little differences that make me like Salival's version more, namely Adam's guitar at the following the "chasing the trail of smoke and reason" line.
I also like the fact that I can make out Maynard saying "...and there we were."
Also, am I the only one who noticed the child's voice when Maynard first starts the child's rhyme in the Salival version.

[hoodling1229]

I think they are both equally good. In the Salival version, it has the energy of a live show, but the studio version has a more professional sound to it, and it has the multi-layered guitar and bass parts, adding to its complexity. I would have to say that I listen to the Salival version more, but I think that the extended ending of the Aenima version is better.

[Arkham Asylum]

Both are awesome, each track has its own perks. What always struck me in the Salival version was the quiet groan/moan and slightly dissonant version of the "Prying open my third eye!" music (between 9:06 and 9:14) right before the loud "So good to see you..." verse.

[mjkajdcjc]

If you're looking at it in terms of a lyrical experience, the studio album wins. However, if you want to hear some of Adam's and Danny's best work on their instruments, check out the live version.

[philipg]

I prefer the Salival version by far. I don't like the studio version at all.

Its funny, of the 15 minutes, I only like around 3 minutes of it, but i like it so much that its worth enduring the rest for it :)

what 3 minutes?

[base metal]

The live version has more atmosphere

[Exarch]

the timothy leary sample really makes sense. i want to read more about his views...

[mjkajdcjc]

If you're looking at it in terms of a lyrical experience, the studio album wins. However, if you want to hear some of Adam's and Danny's best work on their instruments, check out the live version.

Does anyone else agree with me?

[2and46]

Does anyone else agree with me?

Completely. Live Tool adds so much more to the ambiance of the band. Its a shame we don't have a DVD. Tragedy actually.

[Lysander]

Indeed, if I had live versions of tunes like the Grudge, Lateralus and Rosetta Stoned I would in all likelyhood never leave my room ever again. Anyway, I'm going with hte salival version for now but to be fair I haven't listened to the studio version all that much. ANd by th way, to the person who talks about the "child" voice--it's not. Maynard overdubs a falsetto on the studio version, so to mimmic that effect on the live version they put an effect on his voice to push it up an octave. So Maynard is actually singing harmony with.. himself. YOu can tell because of how tinny the voice sounds. If you care about such things, they do a similar effect on Schism, only it's half an octive down rather than a full one up. I dont' think they do this for any other songs, though.

[Metta Synth]

Third Eye -Salival version came up on my iPod shuffle today, so I'm partial to that right now...Bill Hicks is cool, but Tim Leary's words have more significance to the song, I think...

And Maynard's vocals are raw, if he fucked up in the studio, they could do another take, or overdub vocals...

and I'm not ruling out that they overdubbed in the live lyrics a little bit, but you can tell his lyrics are R-A-W and in your face

[PShepherd11]

I like the introduction better on the live version and I can hear a lot of words more clearly, but I think I like the studio version better because I heard that one first. Overall, they really do sound very similar. They're so good live, I sometimes forget which CD I've got in.

[Lysander]

I would go out on a limb and say that tehy didn't overdub at all on the live version. If they did it would sound awkward because of the different room accoostics, microphone, speaker cabinet and EQ. I'm not saying it's easy to tell the difference between one and another blind, but singing on a stage of an auditorium full of people sounds very different from singing in a studio, (the stage echoes) and any change from live stage to studio overdub would, in the context of it being in the middle of the song, stick out like a soar thumb. If anything, they woudl have dubbed in keyboard parts, although dubbing guitar and bass is also possible (The guitar inputs get captured right off the soundboard, so they're "sterile" of venue accoostics so they'd be much easier to overdub. Drums have the same problem vocals do, just to a lesesr degree. I think it's pretty darn unlikely that they dubbed anything at all, though.) ...Actually, if I knew that there was one part of hte song that was dubbed and i had to guess which one (which I don't) I would guess it would be the bass drum hits after "Why are you runnin'?" They sound a little odd.

[mr. nikki jensen]

the studio version. love the bagground guitar.

[DON IOTAE]

Which version of Third Eye do you like more - the studio or Salival one? Does the live version remind you of hearing it at a show, and the euphoria you undoubtedly felt? =)

If I had to choose, I'd definitely pick the studio version. I'm of the opinion that when a song is put on an album and released, something special happens to it - regardless of how many variations there were before it was recorded and regardless of how many variations there are after, the EXACT version that's on the album is special - it's THE master.

~Berj

I agree.

[mr. nikki jensen]

i wish i could hear it live....

ohh sweet orgasm it would be

[trickma]

Salival by far.

[DON IOTAE]

^ .

[Polish_Rides_The_Spiral]

i enjoy very much the think for yourself speech, heard it many times on more than just this track, but the vocals kill it on me for salival. at 4:10 on the salival recording, and 3:51 on aenima is my favorite part of the song, when maynards vocals get sliced up, and when that just didnt ever happen on salival i cant say that it is as good as the studio recording

[bassmaster]

I like both versions for different reasons.
The song Third Eye is a journey (like many other Tool songs).
Both versions are different paths on the same journey.

[anarcho-commie]

I think the Salival version has more energy behind it. It's a lot more raw, and that's why I would have to pick it over the studio version. I do however like the Bill Hicks intro more.

[hobbitcore]

they're fairly similar musically but there are a few nuances that are different...obviously the samples...I prefer the Timothy Leary one...I don't like in the live one when they kick back into the "SO GOOD TO SEE YOU" they added the little riff before it, I like it much better in the original when it just kicks back in...also I much prefer the studio version of the whole "shrouding all the ground..." part...it's MUCH more subtle and peaceful and intense

[Eulogy33]

hmm...i dunno. Live tracks are always more emotional.

[Matt8]

i prefer the salival versions of third eye AND pushit although i love the studio versions.

[Tool_Is_Sick]

Just cant get enough of TOOL can we? they are taking over ours lives. They spoil me for other bands and it makes me upset but then again it makes me happy. They are...incredible.

[PShepherd11]

So...which version is it that you like?

[SpeiranVaun]

SALIVAL VERSION!

[Tool_Is_Sick]

I prefer the Ænima Verison. But then again the Salival verison is also kick ass.

[H A R R Y M E R K I N]

I actually prefer a version that you can find on a bootleg from Kalamazoo, MI, 1998. I t doesn't have the live Tabla from aloke, but I think the Salival versions guitar is a bit too loud....this version is way better balanced. . . anyone heard it?

[2and46]

Live version for sure. Its far more trippy, and I just like the feel of live music...especially from Tool. Should of made a poll.

[Shax]

Gotta be the studio version for me.

[parables in the world]

I like both for diff. reasons.

The studio: I like the end, when they do it longer.
Live: the overall Energy behind it.

[orangeisgoood]

I like the introduction better on the live version and I can hear a lot of words more clearly, but I think I like the studio version better because I heard that one first. Overall, they really do sound very similar. They're so good live, I sometimes forget which CD I've got in.

He, exactly why tool is so good. they rock live. most bands nowadays suck balls live. but not tool the dominate.
and i like both versions...for some of the already mentioned reasons.

[DÆmonoidTrinomial]

BUMP :: Not that a "which is better" thread really needed it but ya know. Even after now having truly listened to the Salival version with the earbuds n lights off/eyes closed treatment, I am still...simply unable to arrive at the conclusion that it is better than the studio take of what's probably my favorite song of my favorite band. I imagine many tool songs take on a certain additional quality live that can't help but at least somewhat transcend the studio takes but...

IDK i guess I just feel that Third Eye, even decidedly more than other songs, is fully realized when it includes the studio as an instrument. Even the 'Nard just can't quite bring home that chopped "hey eh eh eh eyyyy" part between the second verse n Adam's double-tracked sonic painting session. speaking of the double-tracked part, that's the other main thing the live version lacks. These are the two examples that stick out in my head as I'm typing this but there are many more instances throughout the song that, when I get to them in the Salival version ,can't help but at that moment wish I was listening to the studio cut.

All that said, Salival track 01 is a hell of take on a hell of a song and I do enjoy listening to it for a change of pace sometimes. Especially, the intro (something that seems to be touted as the main difference for most people, idk I like both just fine) just has this amazing anticipation/tension to it that may slightly surpass the AEnima version. (by intro I mean the whole works right up til "drea, -ming of, that face again, not just the very beginning samples)

[tummy_sticks]

I can't get over the sarcasm of Maynard's opening of the schism version.

It's hilarious and all, but come, painted a bit too thick

[romagia]

I'm of the opinion that when a song is put on an album and released, something special happens to it - regardless of how many variations there were before it was recorded and regardless of how many variations there are after, the EXACT version that's on the album is special - it's THE master.

So you say that the original 72826 Sober is better then the Undertow one?

[TheDude420]

the kalamazoo boot version is sweet

[SpiralOut34]

I read this and found out that Third Eye really DOES have a studio-recorded version...goddamn iPod doesn't have it >.< (I go home and rip my CDs asap, and then listen to them. I know it's backwards.) Glad to have my CDs with me, then I will update on my favorite :D

[CaSandra251]

The live version is the best in my opinion. I love Maynard's voice in that song. I really don't listen to the studio version much. I could listen to him sing, "So good to see you, I missed you so much" live everyday. Such a great song. As corny as it sounds, I feel a connection to that song when I hear it live. I can just relate to it on a deeper level that I never felt on the studio version. Seeing it live this year was unbelievable. So good there are no words to explain.

[Dylanja]

I prefer the live 2010 extended version. I enjoyed the megaphone usage for "child's rhyme stuck in my head," and "shrouding all the ground around me."

Awesome thread, great points from each perspective. I prefer live, because well, that's the only time they sound cleaner than their recordings =)

[darkstarhub]

I have to go with the Salival version. The emotion is there and it sounds so good. I always prefer a good, clean live version of a song. Anything can be done in the studio, when the song is done live, there is one shot, one take. I wish Tool would release more live stuff, a DVD would be so fuckin sweet, but some officially released live concert recordings from the master recordings of them would really be nice. I know people would buy them. But I have to give them credit, they dont have to do it, unlike some bands that do it to just to make some money, they will do it when the time is right.

[fernygii]

black as holes within a memory.

I love this song. any way it's being played out of my speakers sounds good to me.

[base metal]

I like the version I heard at Red Rocks.

So good.

[Balk]

I like the sound clarity that comes with a studio version, but the Salival version is about as good a performance as you can get. Both do it for me, but I naturally prefer a studio recording.

[Master Roshi]

The live version is so much more energized

[Mosis]

ya'll need to download some bootlegs. there are some truly incredible shows recorded by amateurs floating around out there - the 2010 tour version of Third Eye is fucking ridiculously awesome, much better than the Salival version

[In Spades]

Thanks to this thread, I put on my pirate hat and found quite a few versions of Third Eye I haven't heard before, because I'm suggestible like that.

The 2010 extended version was awesome, but my favorite part of the song has always been the Danny's drumming, of which you can hear in crystal clarity on the Salival version. Plus, the first time I heard it; it blew me away.

[crincled]

lol at my ambivalent posts in this thread