Punishment as it is fit

[Mark D]

A jerkoff in this song is someone who does things without thinking of the consequenses. It doesnt matter whats right, its only wrong if you get caught. That means that you can do anything you want without having a punishment. Normal, moral people wouldnt take advantage of this notion. Jerkoffs are the ones that can commit a crime without their morals getting in the way. To a point, I guess I can be a jerkoff.

[Penguin]

Hmmm.. alright :P

[sk8ingknot4659]

or it could be just another name for an asshole...

[ignore-reality]

Jerkoff in the context of this song = religious authority?

[lil_kitty]

Ya know what, I'm sick of reading shit about the religious aspects of Tool's songs! Sure, alot of them are linked to religion, but not all. I've never been into any religion at all, I don't believe in god, can't fathom how anyone can be that ignorant. Point is, before I ever discussed my love for Tool's music with anyone, I paid less attention to the religious connotations of it (because I knew NOTHING about christianity, didn't know any of the stories, nothing) and loved the music and the message for what I got out of it, for what I inferred it to mean. I love the song Jerk Off, it's really a fun song, gives me energy. It's one of those where you know exactly the feeling conveyed and it's about something normal that we probably think about once everyday. Stupid people. Yes, about the dumbfucks that irritate the hell out of us. Why are you always looking for the "deep" meaning in things, there isn't always. In my opinion this song is the band ranting and having a good time doing it. And that satifies me more than trying to find a way for it to relate to a "religious authority".

[Mark D]

Ya know what Kitty? Fuck off!

I'm sick of reading shit about the religious aspects of Tool's songs! -lil_kitty

Oh yeah? Well Im not a religious guy by any means, but I found that if you try to look at ideas from a different perspective, you can actually learn things. Try it out. Also I believe that ignore-reality was trying to say that religious authorities can be jerk offs. They can get away with crimes and not care about who suffers, as long as they dont get caught. Jerk off = corrupt

Not caught: Mark D

[lil_kitty]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark D
[B]**Ya know what Kitty? Fuck off!**

hmm.... gladly;) I try to at least twice a day.
Dearest Mark D,
What's up with the hostility? I was under the impresson that this was an opinions folder and as the saying goes....everyone's got one. The point that I was trying to make, dear Mark D, is that if you step away from the religious views of Tool's songs you can learn more about who you are. I would indeed call that looking at it from a different purrspetive, wouldn't you? Instead of looking for the "authorities" implied in certain songs look for those faults within yourself, because you can't hate something or someone for their faults unless you hate that about yourself. The fact that you recognize these faults and feel negatively about them can provide the will power to change that about yourself. If it offends you that I use Tool's music as a "tool" of reference to guide and gauge and compare views that I have and am learning to believe- accept or not accept, well just be the "bigger" person and ignore my posts. Yes, I am sick of hearing about nothing but religion in association with Tool's music. (don't get me wrong- I absolutely adore that perspective of it, it is what inspired me to finish my masters in Religion/Philosophy. Also, maybe, since I teach courses on religion and religious philosophy, I am ready to hear about something new and fresh.)I am just ready to move past that and turn the references inward and make a better person of myself. I can understand how ignorant jerkoffs cannot see their own faults and therefore have no desire to think on a higher level, people too ignorant to see their own ignorance. My desires in life are to learn anything and everything I can, and the only thing that I know for certain is that I have just a piece of the puzzle in my hand, but I'm one step closer to discovering yet another piece with every breath I take......and the ability to see past all that.... for I have not yet begun to put the puzzle together. Who knows... I might be utterly disappointed when my life ends and the only thing I have truly learned is that I am not ready to die. I thoroughly enjoy my life, I partake in all the pleasures I can and bask in them. I would suggest that you try the same, and when you do you won't have time to be a jerkoff to others like you were to me.

Oh, and please do try fucking off sometime.... I hear it relieves stress.

Fondest wishes,
and purrs
the kitty

[Mark D]

That was a much better, more in depth analyzation kitty. Nice job. And the explanation for the hostility: 3 words. Mood swings.

[mr. fuck You]

well said..

[Torpid_Prey]

Hehe i love seeing arguements on these forums - theyre always so insiteful and interesting.

"Oh, and please do try fucking off sometime.... I hear it relieves stress.

i was always under the impression that this was called 'jerking off' which in my view can give a whole new meaning to this song - lol, and i too am not religious in any way shape or form, but it is interesting to witness the growing ignorance of people, but its also that some religious statements can be removed from their religious nature and takes out to mean something completly different. thats what i like to do.

so kitty, and maark d, i recon u's should cool ur heels a bit, god damn. just dont think about the religious side, and remember like u said kitty, this is an opinion so mark d is also allowed his own opinion too.

just a few more hints to those with long posts - paragraphs
and one more thing, for anyone who uses 'igorance' every second word - remember - ignorance is bliss.

«---- '][' ø r p î d ]? r ê ÿ ----»

[lil_kitty]

"i was always under the impression that this was called 'jerking off' "
LOL, being of the opposite sex it's not really possible for me to jerk off.
" but its also that some religious statements can be removed from their religious nature and takes out to mean something completly different. "
Exactly!

"just a few more hints to those with long posts - paragraphs"
Waaaaaa! But if it really miffs you that much I will try to use correct grammar in future posting. <maybe>

"and one more thing, for anyone who uses 'igorance' every second word - remember - ignorance is bliss."
To some. Others (like me) learn the ways of the world through hardship and discrimination. I do know that I would rather know what I know about the world, than be sheltered and know nothing. Sometimes I feel happier being unsatified with things than having everthing perfect. (maybe it's just me) I'm one of those people would would just rather know the truth, no matter how much it hurts.

[Choise]

Hey Kitty...you said it yourself, you know nothing about christianity. And you also said that people are ignorant for following a religion. You are ignorant for making a claim to someone being ignorant and your claim has no backing whatsoever. By the way, I don't follow religion, but at least I look into what it has to say before I make opinions on it.

Also I wish that people would realize what an opinion really is. There can be a good opinion and there can be a bad opinion. So differing an opinion from things more factual is ignorant. In fact it is more difficult to come up with a good opinion, then a solid Finite answer. So please respect opinions. And opening up your mind does not mean take in everything, it means consider everything with some dignity. It means try to get your mind right, don't hang onto what you think you know. Many philosophers will relate realizing being wrong as dieing, that every time one of you ideas dies you die a little because you are your ideas. But this is a good thing because you grow back stronger.

[Alex99]

Don't criticse what you can't understand

[AllforUnity]

l don't see the belief in God as ignorant...l see it as ignorant to critisize what you don't, and obviously don't want to understand. Alot of TOOL songs are linked to religion. Maynard isn't an Athiest. He DOES in fact believe in all types of religion. So are you saying Maynard himself is "ignorant" for this? When yet, you still listen to TOOL. l'm sure you didn't know that Maynard prays before a little statue he carries with him with concerts before concerts.

Don't call something ignorant because you don't understand it...all l'm asking is that you open your mind to new and different things. lt's fine if you don't believe in Religion or God...but you don't have to critisize the people who do.

[radmanics]

How can you know nothing of christianity and teach religion? Maybe it'sjust me or teaching religion usually involves teaching things about christianity. :S And if the meaning of the song, which to me at lest a lot of tool's are, is surrounding religion, it's hard to talk about the meaning without involving religion isn't it.

I think you have to look at Tool's music on two levels though:
the first hearing when you just enjoy it for the song that it is and when you start to look for the meanings and understand what the song is really about and what maynard is trying to tell you.

[AllforUnity]

Yes, l agree that TOOL songs are alot revolved around religious aspects of things...but l don't think it's about Christianity.

And if you were referring to me about teaching when l know nothing of Christianity, you're wrong, l know plenty on the subject.

[zxz]

no to be confrotational,perhaps, its the the way you phrase your resposes (attitudinal) that lead others to misinterpret what you say
mr. unity

anyway,
I read an interview with maynard, where the interview brought up a possible topic of this song. maynard responded like it may have been a fair interpretation of the song, but maybe
not
Consequentialism
Consequentialism, as its name suggests, is the view that normative properties depend only on consequences. This general approach can be applied at different levels to different normative properties of different kinds of things, but the most prominent example is consequentialism about the moral rightness of acts, which holds that whether an act is morally right depends only on the consequences of that act or of something related to that act (such as the motive behind the act or a general rule requiring acts of the same kind). Narrower uses of the term ‘consequentialism’ are also common, as we shall see, but it is useful analytically to construe the essence of consequentialism as this exclusive focus on consequences

[zxz]

this is not that far off from what has been talked about previously in this thread just more info.

[zxz]

as far as, knowing what maynard belives NO ONE KNOWS? We can only interpret for ourselves mr. unity. Unless Mr.unity is maynard? Are U maynard are u tool? do

[AllforUnity]

l was not intentionally being confrontational, nor did l presume you were being that way either. l was simply posing a statement to clear up the misinterpretation. l do realize that only Maynard knows what he writes about, or what his beliefs are...Although, l do know about Maynard praying to his statue...in a San Antonio show in '02, TOOL had candles lit around the statue while they were praying to it, and the candles caught the cloth on the table underneath on fire.

lt's also quite possible for myself to be Maynard, as possible as it is you to be.

[zxz]

sure

[AllforUnity]

Yeah.

[Choise]

as far as, knowing what maynard belives NO ONE KNOWS? We can only interpret for ourselves mr. unity. Unless Mr.unity is maynard? Are U maynard are u tool? do

I think science tells us they know so much that it is a part of us to say we know. As for you posting this, why does it matter? So he doesn't know...still what he is saying makes sence and is important. Also if Maynard isn't willing to tell us what the songs are about, then the best idea is essentially what is known. When in fact you don't even know anything except for the fact that you think therefore you are. Yall need to calm down and respect each other, instead of getting angry at each other and completely ruining the experience that I 'know' Maynard wants us to get out of this. And that I 'know' the owners of these boards wants us to have. Sorry if I am offensive but its posts like yours that ruin my experience.

Amen

[AllforUnity]

lf you had EVERY TOOL concert ever on video or on MP3 or whatever...l bet you would have SOME idea of what EVERY song by TOOL means...because if you listen to a concert, mainly in the past, Maynard will speak of what the song means to him.