What 'The Grudge' means to me.

[AllforUnity]

Now...l broke this down into sections, l just thought l would thoroughly express my feelings on the song...

Enjoy...



What l think the course means...

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman.

l think that the first line means that if all you do is think about the past all the time, it's going to weigh you're life down. Explaination: wearing the grudge (something from the past) like a crown of negativity. You're wearing the negativity on your head, therefore it's causing you to be weighed down.

Second line: Simply just lt's always up to us what we tolerate in life. There are some things that get to us. Large or small isn't the point, the point is that it gets to us emotionally.

Third line: People are always desperate to control their lives. People do everything and anything to assume control. An athiest for example...They don't want to believe in God, because they don't want to believe in a higher power controlling their life. Same with people who don't believe in fate, they believe life is what you make of it.

Last line: l'm pretty sure you've read the book 'The Scarlet Letter'. People do not condone the people who wear the letter 'A' in that book. l think this is kind of the same thing, but with people having a problem with things. They don't want to confront it to get rid of it. So they just don't forgive, because it's much easier that way.

First verse:

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.

First line: l think this line is talking about life...as of this whole album. l believe this album is all talking about life and the metamorphasis which takes place. You clutch important things in your life, and keep them close to you...otherwise it leaves you, as it says in the line, "otherwise it all comes down."

Second line: You try to justify your life, and why you're living, and what life is about. When you think you have an answer to something, again, you want to keep it close to you. And it seems to me lonesome end is a metaphmore for death.

Last line: All people are afraid of being wrong...afraid of embarrassment, afraid of non-acceptance, ect. Ultimatum prison cell is a way of saying your life is a cell which you don't want to leave...you want to be right, and you want to believe what you want, and you want it to stay that way.

l think the line "Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again." ls talking about a type of mythology. Which Saturn is green and ultimately means envy. You have to choose your way in life to where you like it...if you don't hang on to it, you have to start all over. l think being humbled again is a way of saying finding the right path again.

Lines "Saturn ascends, comes round again." And "Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done.":

ln your life you envy things alot...other people, animals, so on...And it happens over and over again. But people are hurt by this and they just live like nothing happened...they just want to forget the pain and move on, hence ignorant to the damage done.

Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control.
Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper...

l think this verse talks about how we're so desperate to control our life, like l mentioned earlier. And unable to forgive things...and because of this we're only sinking deeper in the rut of what life is. Because we make it that way.

Defining, confining, controlling, and we're sinking deeper...

Again...we're always trying to define things in life, and we confide in it to be correct. We always try to control things...and all of it just causes us to sink deeper, and we don't know what's wrong.

Saturn comes back around to show you everything
Let's you choose what you will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again
Spits you out like a child, light and innocent...

This is one of my favorite parts of the song, because it's so true. Life shows us what we need to know, through whatever ways it does. But we choose only what we wish to see. "Saturn comes back around to show you everything. Lets you choose what you will and will not see." ls telling you that. "Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again." ls saying it's up to us what happens in our life...we either choose the real thing to see, or life in our own world, which will cause us to be drug down...but if you choose what's real, you will be enlightened. "Spits you out like a child, light and innocent." ls portraying what life does to us...We're nothing compared to the whole word...all we are is a child. And if we don't do what we can to live right, we will be chewed up and spit out.

And that brings you to "Drags you down like a stone to consume you till you choose to let this go."...That line tells you how life will consume you unless you choose what's right...until you choose to let things go, to forgive.

Give away the stone.
Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone.
Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
Let go...

This is all talking about how you should let things go, and give it up. Give up your pride, and realize the truth. Let life transmutate the way you once thought into what's pure...pure like gold. And just let go of it all and live...kinda like that quote "live everyday like it's your last..." because you should.

That's what the song means to me...tell me your thoughts.

[neochrist]

i for the most part somewhat agree with your main point of the where the song is coming from, perhaps to better understand the song you should do a bit more research on the references in the song, for example, the references to alchemy, the saturn configuration, and as ive said before, read the book of enoch for quite a few references, i have a thread about the references of the book of enoch somewhere on here, so look that up.

[AllforUnity]

Yes, l also know about the ways of the Saturn coming down...about how every 29 years Saturn is exactly alined with where it was when you were born...

Definitely the majority of the record is about re-communication,
about understanding where you are in reference to where you’ve been
and where you’re going. It’s the process of letting go of old baggage
and the evaluation of your place. If you’re into astrology or any of
that kind of stuff, there’s a process called the Saturn Return--your
30-year cycle. It’s something like a mid-life crisis, where you step
back and reevaluate.

Or that, as said.

[neochrist]

i know, but if its still on the forum you should read a thread by RRed on the Lateralus album as a whole and its connection to "The Book of Enoch", It breaks down the entire album and how it relates, its very accurate and I agree completely, The Grudge is especially full of references to the book, i recommend you checking it out, In short the song references to God having a grudge against the angels that went against his law, and were punished for it.

[AllforUnity]

Oh yes, l know. l've read virtually every thread/post on this entire site. lncluding the one you're referring to. And as you do, l agree.

[GAiDEN-CHaKRa]

it makes sense, but i think the first like 'wear your grudge like a crown of negativity' i think it means, be proud of it, wear it like a crown ! be proud of the fact that you have this grudge. the negativity just means that your proud of something that is negative, such as this grudge.

[clown137]

to me is just letting go of reality to prepair urself for the material delt with in lateralus and in the endbettering yourself as a person. My opinon comes from the key lines:
"desperate to control all and everything"
"clutch (reality) like a conor stone, otherwise it all comes down"
"let go"

[Brewtality]

This song is definately one of the Tool songs that really compelled me to change something in my life.

The idea of 'wearing the grudge like a crown of negativity' seems to me to describe a person on one side of a grudge/shism, who firmly beleives he/she is right, to the point of letting the grudge, and the issues surrounding it gradually influence their life more and more ["Calculate what we will and will not tolerate" etc...].

The first verse is probably the most powerful for me as it really opens up some truths that I never really explotred before, despite having [too much] experience of them. "Clutch it like a cornerstone, otherwise it all comes down" perfectly describes how in life we often become so wrapped up and absorbed in issues that we often forget that they are not the be-all and end-all of our existence. This feeling leads onto the next line "Justify denials and grip it till the lonesome end". Allowing oneself to become absorbed by the grudge, we change what we will and will not accept, justifying negative behaviour, even when that leaves you without friends and loved one, with only your 'satisfaction' that you 'won' by not backing down, and the 'pride' you fool yourself into feeling by being 'right', when really you're just avoiding you 'terror at being wrong'.

The lines describing the ascension of Saturn etc, depict an opportunity to change, where you see what you've been doing, where you realise your negativity. At this point, you can either swallow your pride, and release you grudge, humbling yourself, or you can continue your negative journey by justifying your actions once again, relying on pride as a friend [being dragged down like a stone].

The two lines which begin "Give away the stone..." seem to be advisory lines from Maynard, urging the parties involved to simply disreguard the issue that created the rift between them and reconcile their differences, taking the negative experience and turning it into a positive one [transmutate these leaden grudges into gold]

WELL, that's how I view the song

[Lackymacky]

i agree so much, i read this post a while ago, and it was one i liked a lot, allforunity, i think, described it well..

one thing i love about this song is the solo part...the scream i have always thought of "giving away the stone" it hurting, that it takes a while, he screams for a while there. and then the clapping sound and the guitar solo...! to me it has always sounded like a party, may sound funny, but listen close. "let go let go" the clapping sounds, the guitar notes it all sounds like what theyre saying after the pain after the scream after the stone has let go you will be a lot happier, which we all know is obviously true. !

[AllforUnity]

Thanks, but l don't fully agree with my previous post anymore. l've done much reading and studying and now l have some-what of a different point of veiw. l will have to go and change all of that around sometime.