starting guitar/bass

[m4yn4rd]

Hey, I'm considering starting either guitar or bass, not quite sure which one though, I have a few questions, how long did it take you to get really into the flow if you know what i mean, what age did you all start at, what's a good way to start, how much does a decent bass cost, (already have a guitar sitting around my house)... give me your thoughts. thanks

[deviatedwolf625]

I've been playing for a couple years on my Dad's Ibanez SR400, nice bass, the action is a little high, but that's adjustable.

Out of the two instruments, guitar is the one that seems to have been more explored, it's much harder to find a unique sound in the guitar world as compared to the bass world.

I'm a bassist though, so you can feel free to flame me for that comment.

Out of the two instruments, bass seems to be the harder to become better at, and bassists are harder to find.

However, guitar is (A) Easier to pick up, (B) Cheaper to buy gear for, and (C) Much more of a lead instrument.

It really depends d00d, I recommend bass.

A good starter bass goes for about 300$. I recommend the Ibanez Soundgears, they sound good, play good.

A good starter bass amp, is about 200$ used, 300-400$ new to get something with decent wattage (My 60 watt practice amp was 200$ used).

It also really depends on the guitar store.

Entry level guitars seem to run for about 200-300$, and a good guitar amp is about 300$.

All American dollars, BTW.

My recommendation to start is to take a couple lessons at least, and get a feel for whatever instrument you choose, and then buy some books. They're hellah cheaper than lessons, and a good book will leave no questions unanswered, at least if it's on technique.

And finally, have fun with it, whatever you choose to do.

[m4yn4rd]

see my brother has an ibanez guitar here, he got it for his bday a long time ago but never really used it, so i could just use that, which is probally what i will do, i just wanna know how to get started

[deviatedwolf625]

Alright, well guitar is your choice.

I told you about the lessons, and also be sure you learn how to sightread sheet music, very, very well. Make it second nature if possible.

I would recommend a technique book, a book on chords, and a book on scales as your starting books. For chords and scales, I like Adam Kadmon's Guitar Grimoire series, it's concise, got a lot of theory, and easy to read fretboard diagrams are a plus too. Each is about 25$ if you order from Amazon.com. As for a technique book, I've got no idea on what to tell ya. You know anyone that plays guitar?

Look into some private instruction in your area. Check the classified ads in local papers, go to guitar stores, whatnot.

Do you have an amp? If so, what brand? Can you tell how much wattage it has, and what kind of speaker(s) it has? By what kind, I mean size and brand of the speaks.

And it's hard to pick up. That's my only other warning. It's rewarding, but it's extremely trying on your patience to get the rewards.

[m4yn4rd]

Do you have an amp? If so, what brand? Can you tell how much wattage it has, and what kind of speaker(s) it has? By what kind, I mean size and brand of the speaks.

And it's hard to pick up. That's my only other warning. It's rewarding, but it's extremely trying on your patience to get the rewards.

my bro sold his amp, so id have to get a new one,
im aware its hard to pick up, and im willing to devote myself to it, how long did it take you to get at a level where you could play a full song decently? im not assuming im gonna be super man and this is all gonna come to me in a month, ill give it a couple years if i have to

[deviatedwolf625]

do you have aim? My AIM sn is the same as my TDN screen name, and MSN it's [email protected]

This 'd be a helluva lot easier over aim.

[holy reality]

i've been playing one and a half years and i still don't know very many full songs, the main factor in that is laziness though

i'd say half a year and you'll be at a point where you can learn most of the inetermediate radio songs you want with a lot of frustrating practice, but you'll get there at least...

in the first few months you'll probably only be able to learn a few riffs here and there and a few whole simple songs....

the first month you probably won't be able to do much though.

i can't stress learning as much theory as you can, not too much, you don't want to be a theory robot... but...

scales, chords, etc... vital... i don't know any but if i did i'd be so much better

i don't personally think you need to be able to know the damned names for each and every chord out there, but just to be familiar with them so that if you hear them you can sort of pick them out by ear... and like... if you're looking at tabs it's a lot easier if you recognize these notes i'm playing belong to a certain chord, whoah, now i know how to finger this... you know?

same for scales.

[Torpid_Prey]

ive been playin bass for about 2 years now and if you wanna become good at it its hard work (like anything) but the recognition still really isnt there - guitarists get a lot more recognition and they dont even have to be good to get it (unfortunatly)

im not tryin to diss those who do play because i kno some really fucking good players of guitar. there are also 2 major styles of guitar - chords and single notes - and some really good players are fantastic at both. bass players usually stick to single note progressions, but sometimes chords can be thrown in to boost the sound.

no matter what instrument - be it wind, strings, even some percussion) should learn chord progressions - not just so you can play them, but also so you can hear them and play according to them. bassists need tho kno what notes fit in the chord the guitarist is playing so if he wants to play a counter melody he doesnt make a fool of himself. scales play a large part here - im tryin to learn some at the moment

good jazz improvisation is my goal - but its a fucking hard goal at that

i can play several tool songs but few others (havent bothered trying) and i can read music well (but playing what i read is another story)

i also strongly recommend that you find something that you find inspiring or motivating - something to keep you going when you start to think "ok im getting sick of this - im not getting anywhere" because everyone thinks that at some stage - without a doubt

[deviatedwolf625]

Very good advice Torpid,

Goals are good, don't stress yourself and bust your left nut over it though.

And holy, music theory is just a tool for creativity. A good analogy would be that it's all the different kinds of brushes for painting. The more you know how to use, the more complex and intricate your paintings get. I used to be a theory fanatic, till I realized music theory isn't the rules of music, it's just the classification.

[neochrist]

i'm thinking of learning to play bass myself, i never really had any inspiration to play any instrument other than piano because my dad plays, i can't read music, i play piano by ear, my dad is amazing and im ok at it, the reason i really want to learn to play bass is justin chancellor, that may sound kinda corny or whatever being this is a tool forum but im serious, he's an amazing bassist and i never really cared about bass as most people do until i listened to tool where the bass is thrown in your face just as much as the drums and the guitar. so any advice on what to buy for beggining bass equipment or on what to read to learn would be very helpful

[deviatedwolf625]

Yeah, I know what you mean, if you like that, listen to Primus, I saw them live, and if it had been a lesser bassist, the show would have sucked ass.

My advice is find a professional informal teacher, more of a friend. Knowing my dad has helped me a lot

[Torpid_Prey]

if you want to hear awesome slap bass technique/speed then listen to "Victor Wooten" - get mp3s off imesh or kazaa or something - fucking awesome solos

i must admit - the primus bassist would easily be the best slap bassist ive ever heard - not to mention - he sings too. unbelievable.

a teacher would be a good idea- i never had one - i was stuck with a book, but sometimes u just gotta make good with what youve got... but you need somewhere to start. theres no point making it up from the start because youll do more damage than good.

for a beginner a standard bass $300 should do it. 4 strings, nothing special
once you get the hang of it, and want to do some interesting shit, get a 5 string, and a nice chunky amp (that doesnt rattle when you play a low b - or low e in my case) and then you can play parabola :) - i still havent fully mastered that yet cuz i havent got a 5 sting just yet :(

also - if u want the best bass sound i recommend u learn to finger pluck - none of this pick crap - you get a bassier sound without one. unless you're after a certain effect id stick with the fingers.

[neochrist]

doesnt justin play a four string with a pick

[Torpid_Prey]

in parabola he uses a 5 string, and i think he does play with a pick, but it may just be an effect or he has the tone up

or maybe its the effect hes after - like i mentioned
and theres no way he always uses a pick because if u listen to the bass at the start of the quieter songs, the low bmmmm sounded bass cant be picked - you cant use a pick and get that kind of sound... like the patient

[holy reality]

learn both, fingerpicking and pick picking....

even if you play guitar.

[Torpid_Prey]

fingerpicking on guitar sounds fucking incredible but its soooo hard to get all fingers co-oridnated.... especially on acoustic

dont play the loser *** way by only using ur thumb.. i know some lame arse guitarists and they only use their thumb to get chords (power chords mind you) and they think theyre cool

*** ']['orpid Prey ***

[48&2]

in parabola he uses a 5 string, and i think he does play with a pick, but it may just be an effect or he has the tone up

or maybe its the effect hes after - like i mentioned
and theres no way he always uses a pick because if u listen to the bass at the start of the quieter songs, the low bmmmm sounded bass cant be picked - you cant use a pick and get that kind of sound... like the patient

a 5 string? dont know about that... that song is in weird tuning though...

[Torpid_Prey]

wanna kno y it sounds wierd? because the 5 sting has a low B, and its not in drop-D because he has the B string which can already hit the D, so the next string is E just like regular tuning

with that in mind i was able to play it, check out the tab section (if they still work) and check out RYAN RAGSDALE - CORRECT (or words to that effect)... he explains it there

ive tried ryan's tabs out and i must say that if they're not correct, then theyre pretty bloody close.

[mesa-b]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said so far, I COMPLETELY agree with fingerpicking over pick use for bass, fingers just give you that crazy bass "rumble" that is so goddamn cool. plus you can do that kind of power chord shape picking just the

Fingerpicking for guitar is a great skill as well. I suggest you try learning Stairway to Heaven. That's one of the first songs that I learned (2 years ago) and i've been working on it ever since so I have it about as perfect as I can get it, and you can't do shit with the intro of that song if you're using a pick.

and, as a guitarist, I agree that you don't have to be as talented to get noticed as one of "us", but I consider myself fairly talented, I have a long way to go but I am better than almost all other guitarists I have met. But then again, one kid I know is absolutely fucking AMAZING!! Improv solos, damn this kid is crazy.

But yea, let's give it up for the keepers of the bottom end

-James

[holy reality]

fingerpicking on guitar sounds fucking incredible but its soooo hard to get all fingers co-oridnated.... especially on acoustic

dont play the loser *** way by only using ur thumb.. i know some lame arse guitarists and they only use their thumb to get chords (power chords mind you) and they think theyre cool

*** ']['orpid Prey ***
What in the world are you talking about? The only chord that uses the thumb that I know if is something like:

--0---------------------------------------
--2---------------------------------------
--3---------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
--2---------------------------------------
*thumb over 2*

I think it's an F something or other chord.

how the hell you use a thumb to play a power chord i have no clue, unless you're talking about finger picking a powerchord, in which case the thumb is more economical when doing strumming patterns to use than the fingernail of your index finger is (ouchies).

you can also play each string at the same time with one finger on each string but it doesn't give the desired strumming sound that you often need

i guess maybe you're talking about drop D one finger chord playing, which is the only way to play in drop D....

or playing powerchords by barring your 3rd finger over the top two notes, or pinky over them (that's how I do it because it's more economical and makes no sense to most people)

[Torpid_Prey]

youve got my meaning all wrong - and i said only using your thumb... not to play a chord which also uses the fingers on other strings

i mean the mofo's who substitute a pick for their thumb, and just strum down, down down with it...

it makes a poor sound and you cant get any speed or accuracy

*** ']['orpid Prey ***

[Choler]

wanna kno y it sounds wierd? because the 5 sting has a low B, and its not in drop-D because he has the B string which can already hit the D, so the next string is E just like regular tuning

Justin does not play a 5 string he uses a 4 string with the D and A string tuned down. I have videos of him playing parabola. But about the pick, I am pretty sure that he uses a pick most of the time, the Wal bass has a very different tone compared to other basses when you strike it.

I suggest playing the guitar however is comfortable for you, I have taught myself how to play and have progressed greatly since I have started. But if you want to learn technical stuff then get a teacher and learn how to read music or whatever. But I find it best to just jam out with a friend in a dim lite room making crazy shit and experimenting with effects.

[Torpid_Prey]

if you try to keep your stings tuned down too much they just go flappy and dont produce a powerful sound

[Choler]

then you need to buy a higher gauge of strings, are you using standard?

[Torpid_Prey]

yea most likely - i havent changed them - its my brothers bass but i use it more than him

[conical johnson]

[to Adam Jones] So you're basically a Gibson man yeah? And
you tunings are in dropped D or B?
AJ: Uh huh. Yeah, it's mostly dropped D, and we also have
drop B, and then we have drop B/E.
You'd have to be using pretty heavy strings there?
AJ: No I'm just using the strings that are there. I mean if you
take an E string and drop it down to D/A it will have a little bit
of flop, it sounds kind of evil. When you turn it down to B it's
just a lot more of a flop. It's intonated you know but....
JC: I actually use slightly thicker strings on the bass for the
drop B/E tuning 'cos it's a real like...
AJ: 'Cos he's not as evil.
JC: I'm not as evil, and it's like a big kind of strumming riff
that we do with that tuning and I was getting the strings
smacking against the pickups.

Justin plays a 4. Always.

One should be capable of using as many tools as one can. Learn to use a pick, fingers, slap, tapping, whatever.

And, seriously, stop typing in yellow.

[Believer]

When I first got my bass I started out learning songs that I enjoyed and just playing along with them. I think that's a good idea for beginners becuase it's not too difficult and it helps you get familar with whatever instument you're playing and it's pretty fun to do. Learning music theory and improvising can be kinda stressful for some and a big pain in the ass, but it can be learned you just got to want learn it, it just takes some time.

Some good bands to start off playing would probly be (if you like them and wanna play there songs).

Nirvana, they have alot of good songs for beginners
System of a Down (though their songs are in drop C)
Rage Againist the Machine
Any Punk shit should be easy as hell to learn
Tool songs are good to play but they can be very tricky though

And be sure to listen to music closely, whether you're playing or just listening, developing a good ear with music can help you out alot too.

Well that's my advice for now.

[deviatedwolf625]

I wouldn't advise learning anything that has drop tuning until you master Standard tuning.

[Torpid_Prey]

I wouldn't advise learning anything that has drop tuning until you master Standard tuning.couldnt agree more...

i can read music cuz ive played in orchestras and jazz bands and that such. i learned to play bass from a book - that just went through and had excercies using one note, and moving up until i had the first 5 frets on all strings down.

my main thing now is learning to use the chord patterns that you get when playing each type of chord/scale
eg.
G7 (Mixolydian Scale) - Major scale or 7th Chord with lowered 7th note
Gmin7 (Dorian scale or Minor 7th chord) major Scale with 3rd and 7th note lowered

another favorie scale is the blues scale - only 7 notes including tonic - trippin :P

if u dont know "music" music, then you wont have a clue what im on about, but if you do then you'll kno that C7, F7 and G7 etc all have the same finger patterns on the fret board, just like other scale pattern types (in standard tuning) and its for that reason why you should try to start in (and understand) standard tuning before you try to drop the pitch.

im not saying learn music or else... im just saying that it helps to an endless degree - depending on how much effort you put into learning it - ive been reading music for 6 years, and playing bass for 2 so i already had a fairly established music background before i began on bass...

[holy reality]

youve got my meaning all wrong - and i said only using your thumb... not to play a chord which also uses the fingers on other strings

i mean the mofo's who substitute a pick for their thumb, and just strum down, down down with it...

it makes a poor sound and you cant get any speed or accuracy

*** ']['orpid Prey ***
ahh ok... aaron lewis was playing nothing else matters that way, i wanted to bitch slap him.... it looked 500 times harder than just keeping your damn hand in one place and using 3 .... yes... THREE whole fingers... wtf... those people are crazy.

he couldn't play the chorus part either he just kept playing the open strings.

[Torpid_Prey]

...using 3 .... yes... THREE whole fingers... wtf... those people are crazy.:D I use 3 fingers - takes a bit of practice, but it makes triplets a breaze!

*** ']['orpid Prey ***