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desolateangel
12-13-2002, 09:55 AM
Do you have to be under the influence of psychedelics in order to open your third eye? Can this be achieved naturally?

seeker
12-13-2002, 01:14 PM
it's been shown that prayer or ritual can bring a person to a state of mind where the brain ceases to recognize its bounds... like it forgets where the fingertips end; it can't recognize the bounds of the physical body. scientists have found that they can reproduce this by causing microseizures in a part of the brain (i can't remember where) which has resulted in plenty of strange results--some feel like their legs are stretching to impossible lengths for example, and the atmosphere and beliefs of the individual affect any visions. in one case there was a crucifix nearby and a person subjected to the microseizures had visions of christ.

basically, the mind's ability to transcend is perfectly natural, and can be induced through prayer, meditation, or big machines that cause microseizures. drugs don't do this, but mimic the effects by stimulating the brain in other ways (which are often needlessly dangerous). if you want to experience something truly spectacular, do some research how and then get busy meditating and praying. the key is belief.

human mind... the natural drug.

The Village Too
12-14-2002, 02:39 PM
i think you can do what you want to achieve any state. if you want to take drugs, do so responsibly as to insure the safety of others. I've never understood reaching such a state without help of them

Relentless
12-18-2002, 08:16 AM
I read a book once that was written by a tibetan and he said that wen he was a little boy and he entered the "monastery", to open his third eye, three other lamas took him into a room and they actualy made an incision in his forehead until it got trough the bone, and then they put a piece of wood inside then left him there for three weeks, and wen they finaly they took it out they treated the boy with some herbs and other stuff, and wen hi finaly got out he could see the other people's auras, and he could not believe this, and he couldn't cotrol it either until after many years of practice.

flipmojo
12-18-2002, 11:06 AM
No.

You can open your third eye through your emotions. Its not physical.

Yes.

damnable
12-18-2002, 12:10 PM
Try yoga. Or a ton of LSD. Careful with the latter, though. When you can't close your eyes, it is difficult to sleep.

Relentless
12-20-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by flipmojo
No.

You can open your third eye through your emotions. Its not physical.

Yes.

I did not said that this was the only alternative i just mentined the way that is done in the Chakpori lamastery in Tibet, besides it was never an alternative for us, it's only part of their culture.

flipmojo
12-21-2002, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by Relentless


I did not said that this was the only alternative i just mentined the way that is done in the Chakpori lamastery in Tibet, besides it was never an alternative for us, it's only part of their culture.

My reply was for desolateangel. The person who started this thread.

OpiAtE_666
12-21-2002, 12:35 PM
I'm probably going to misquote someone, but I read an interview where Maynards was saying that the human mind was like a radio tuner, you could tune in to different wavelengths of conciousness and experience new things. Normally, he says, it takes years and years of meditation. Drugs are are a shortcut to reach different levels of conciousness. He also said he used to do mushrooms all the time.

LazyE462
12-24-2002, 09:43 AM
I think that drugs are used to get a different perspective or angle on life. But ultimately it is up to the person to use discipline, meditation, and emotion to open his third eye. I actually know a friend who tried to "pry" his third eye open, and nearly succeeded, as he was actually feeling it working, but all the drug use to open his third eye actually damaged it, because i guess the eye was pryed open before it was ready to be. Just a different angle, i think for every person it would be different.

Floydian Theory
12-26-2002, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by LazyE462
I think that drugs are used to get a different perspective or angle on life. But ultimately it is up to the person to use discipline, meditation, and emotion to open his third eye. I actually know a friend who tried to "pry" his third eye open, and nearly succeeded, as he was actually feeling it working, but all the drug use to open his third eye actually damaged it, because i guess the eye was pryed open before it was ready to be. Just a different angle, i think for every person it would be different.

I agree with your theory on the matter.
Damaging your mind with chemical substances, in the long run, can hurt you more than help you on a spiritual journey.
But, for some, drugs are needed to make them aware that such a thing exists.

5-MeO-DMT
01-06-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by OpiAtE_666
I'm probably going to misquote someone, but I read an interview where Maynards was saying that the human mind was like a radio tuner, you could tune in to different wavelengths of conciousness and experience new things. Normally, he says, it takes years and years of meditation. Drugs are are a shortcut to reach different levels of conciousness. He also said he used to do mushrooms all the time.

I agree with you, but I feel in my personal experiences with Mushrooms, (some of these experiences were out of body ones) that Mushrooms are sort of injecting a large amount of feeling and emotions or making your body more sensitive to feeling. Now how does this relate to third eye you say,, well because your body is now more sensitive, perhaps the glands found in you forehead well be even more sensitive to light than usual. The third is eye is there, using it is a different matter.

DXRocker73
01-09-2003, 10:59 AM
Sure drugs bring you to a depth in your mind, but it's artifcial, not real. The chemicals mingling in your brain cause visions and thought, that seem real, but aren't.

In order to face the beauty of reality, I'd try more natural solutions, yoga, yes. Meditation, prayer especially, and faith.

SmileyGladhands
01-10-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by OpiAtE_666
Drugs are are a shortcut to reach different levels of conciousness. He also said he used to do mushrooms all the time.

Agreed. You can do anything you want while your sober, but drugs sure as hell help alot. You can get high, pop on the song and listen, you're already making yourself capable of opening up.

DXRocker73
01-12-2003, 09:19 PM
Yes, but you see is still artificial, not real. I really can't see how anybody would want to have artifical inspiration.

No disrespect to you guys, iz just what I think.

stoggie
01-16-2003, 08:00 AM
wrong.

Floydian Theory
01-16-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by DXRocker73
Yes, but you see is still artificial, not real. I really can't see how anybody would want to have artifical inspiration.

No disrespect to you guys, iz just what I think.

See, that's what I was thinking.
If people really care about becomine enlightened and bettering themselves, then drugs should be out of the question.
You can't put harmful substances into your body expecting them to enlighten you.
Sure, I think drugs open people up to possibilities, to new things, to new thoughts.
But I don't think drugs can take you to the destination, they just show you the road exists.

Just my two cents.

SilentThinker
01-19-2003, 11:25 AM
DXRocker:
"I'd try more natural solutions, yoga, yes. Meditation, prayer especially, and faith."

Yoga was invented by humans, meditation was invented by humans, prayer as well as faith was invented by humans.
Mushrooms grow on cow turd! What's more natural than that?
Just putting a little perspective on things... :)

piajartist
02-06-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by SilentThinker
Yoga was invented by humans, meditation was invented by humans, prayer as well as faith was invented by humans.
Mushrooms grow on cow turd! What's more natural than that?
Just putting a little perspective on things... :)

I see your point with the natural state of shrooms. But on the otherhand I think that drugs are somewhat of a shortcut like mentioned previously in thsi discussion. Im only 17 and plan to study many books on the mind and psyche so I may have such 'trips' with or without the use of mind altering substances.

Andy
02-09-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by piajartist
I see your point with the natural state of shrooms. But on the otherhand I think that drugs are somewhat of a shortcut like mentioned previously in thsi discussion. Im only 17 and plan to study many books on the mind and psyche so I may have such 'trips' with or without the use of mind altering substances.

Having a 'trip' without drugs would be quite difficult, I imagine. And I mean why go through the effort when all you have to do it put a little piece of paper in your mouth and wait a bit. :)

-Andy

Floydian Theory
02-10-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Andy
Having a 'trip' without drugs would be quite difficult, I imagine. And I mean why go through the effort when all you have to do it put a little piece of paper in your mouth and wait a bit. :)

-Andy

If you aren't able to focus or have little control over your mind, yes, it will be harder without drugs.
But who ever said that the easy road, was the best road?
I've found that in life, the rougher path seems to take you to the greater destinations.

I also think it's possible that "Third Eye" is actually talking about damaging your third eye with drugs.
Hence, the lyrics "Prying open my third eye"
and relating to it as a "withered eye"

I just think that people will miss out on alot if they take that route to spiritual ascension.

TimothyLeary
02-17-2003, 09:14 AM
O.K. People, let's not talk things down unless we know things about them...

Now there are some drugs which are bad, i can agree with you on that. But; lsd and mushrooms harmful substances? Come on people, do a little research before you start saying things kill braincells and such. For all you evangelists out there (why are you on a tool website?), let me explain seretonin to you.

Seretonin occurs naturally in your brain, and it has been proven to basically define "realism". It is between every receptor in your brain, and carries electronic messages through nerves. It sort of picks up messages and energies around you and translates them. Now, when you meditate, or sleep for that matter, there is an upsurgance of seretonin; i.e. all things feel possible.

Now lsd, psylocybin (in mushrooms), mescaline, and a few others work in the same way seretonin does. In fact, they have almost the same chemical makeup as seretonin. And so, your brain puts them in the place of the seretonin, using them instead of it. How is this harmful? I don't see how it could be. And furthermore, see how many cases you can find of overdoese on lsd or psylocybin...

Any ways, what these drugs do; they act as a receptor superconductor, letting in much more energy and enabling you to experiance "unrealistic" things. Now here's where i'm going; How do you say that "your" meditation experiance is any more "real" than my lsd experiance?

There are many different ways to get to Rome; some keys open different locks, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. There is a difference between finding the answer on your death bed, and finding the answer in life and living with it...


P.S. oh yea, it even talks about peyote (mescaline) in the song:

"Like ->phosphorescent desert buttons<-, singing one familiar song:"

Hogpile
02-17-2003, 09:34 AM
Uh, Seretonin is not what your saying it is man. Seretonin is the chemical in your brain that measures feelings of pleasure. Seretonin is released when you do things that make you feel good. (e.g. having sex, playing your favorite games, doing ecstacy) I've never heard of shrooms or acid having much to do with seretonin.

dork
02-18-2003, 07:22 PM
Your "third eye" in this case represents an altered perception. drugs induce an altered state of perception, as can meditation, and severely abusing your bodys need for sleep and food. BAM!

Pineal
02-20-2003, 01:04 AM
"Sure drugs bring you to a depth in your mind, but it's artifcial, not real. The chemicals mingling in your brain cause visions and thought, that seem real, but aren't."

What is real? How do you know that what we see and hear and smell around us is real? Couldn't this all be some kind of illusion?

Hogpile
02-20-2003, 10:43 AM
I would say to all of you that say experiences gained by drug use "are not real" to think about what your saying. In my opinion, anything happening to you at any given moment is "real" be it under the influence or perfectly sober. Reality is whatever is "real" to each individual. What seperates the sane from the insane is only a matter of common conceptions of what is expected to be a functioning part of society. I would say that drugs alter reality, and can affect your outlook on reality, but that they do not directly discern what reality is. More than anything I would say that drugs are more of an alternitive way of looking at something, and you might just see life or yourself differently after using, say, acid or mushrooms.

paraflux
02-24-2003, 12:52 PM
I started a definitive Drug post in Socialize.
By the way, any experience, drug-related or not, is real. Whatever you think, is real. If you think of a purple-spotted elephant is real, does that make the elephant real automatically? Not necessarily, but your experience of thinking about the elephant is real.

Hogpile
02-27-2003, 07:16 AM
I agree paraflux. There are plenty of highly tranquilized acid-heads in loonie bins who think they are pickles or are being chased by little blue dwarves with assault rifles. Sounds like some crazy shit to me, but its real enough to those folks.

yllwcrystlstr
02-28-2003, 12:01 PM
DMT and 5-meo-dmt are produced in the body, discarding any theory that psychedelics are all unnatural chemicals. Ayahuasca has been shown to make the serotonin receptors and pathways healthier.
Meditation + psychedelics is probalby better than either one alone, at least for a lot of people.

extentions
03-22-2003, 05:08 PM
Hello all,


I think its all about personal responsibility. An important question for me is why would I want to achieve a higher state in the first place? Would it be because I want to run away from certain things in life or is it because its sounds like fun and new?

My only problem with drugs is their addictive nature. Some drugs are dangerous, yes, but the thought of having to rely on something to get me somewhere is a LITTLE scary especially when that something is as provocative as drugs. Not all people can handle the addiction to drugs, and this always has something to do with the sense of responsibility they have in everyday life.

Some people like myself for example are a little more sensative to substances, and such. My experience with drugs has not been a so successful one. I wanted to run away from my problems and find something to keep me happy. Bored with everything and sick of the MTV/IKEA life we're living, Tool became a valuable source of fun, problem solving and self-questioning. I went too far though, I became too much of an introvert and alienated everyone around me, isolating myself and felt as if I was an alien on this planet.

I don't think that drugs are the answer. I do think that they are one type of means to the same ends, however they are a means that can dissociate you from society. And society, however fucked up it is, is still a sum of the entire human population in which we live in and must love in order to love ourselves or see a reflection of ourselves to help differentiate and acknowledge or true divinity.

This is going to sound cheesy but its true, the only thing that make me feel alive is the fact that I have the power to choose. I chose drugs, possibly for the wrong reasons, and maybe that is why I've seen things differently and also see the value of life and being alive. I don't want to say Don't do drugs because their bad, but I want to point out that before you decide to do them think a little of why you want to do them, then think a little about the people in your life and how fucked up but loveable they are. Don't go doing drugs because you want to belong or rebel and say 'I'm own person and I can do whatever iI want to do' Learn as hard as you can to love and listen to the fucked up but amazing people on this planet.


-- I choose to live, or die, be paranoid and to lie
whatever gets me through.

Thanks

reedc33
03-23-2003, 02:43 PM
I've left this link elsewhere but it seems appropriate here. If you youngsters are thinking about doing drugs, check out this site and find out what you are getting into...

www.erowid.org

There is information about every drug I have ever heard of and alot more, as well as people writing about personal experiences in practicing meditation. There is also great info about growing mushrooms, though I would never do that...

Information about the 3rd eye has been around for thousands of years and though Indian mystics might have been eating mushrooms and smoking cannabis, there is still a spiritual science intended to awaken and advance higher consciousness through meditation, not drugs. Still, in the west we are so conditioned that drugs may be helpful...

Hogpile
03-28-2003, 10:37 AM
Nice thoughts Reed. In my opinion though, Indian Mystics and Eygptian priests, and all the other holy people in history who have seen weird shit and thought they talked to god and have revelations, were all in fact, on some real good shit.(grasses, roots, berries, cowshit with mushrooms sauce, whatever else was lying around in 3874379 B.C.) As far as enlighting yourself through drugs, or without drugs or by smoking weed, or not smoking weed, I look at it like this: Its all relative. Your body and your mind are only going to exist in this present form for one lifetime, so why not explore the possiblities and push the limits a little. Of course then its also going to be a pointless and painful existence if you push the limits too far and fry yourself out. If you want to live on the straight and narrow thats fine too, but I think everyone should try at least one mind altering drug in their adult lives to see life from a different perspective.

Bonded GR
04-09-2003, 08:51 PM
I have been getting into Tool over the past eight months, and have become attatched to the song and idea of Third Eye. I agree that drugs would be a shortcut to opening my Third Eye. Also, I believe that drugs would harm me therefore I would have a "withered" eye.

astralpersona
04-11-2003, 07:18 PM
i've found that, through my experience, brief usage of psychedelics, actually improved my life, didn't see it as a short cut.. or a way to escape reality, i really feel that i broke new ground through that usage. i've only experienced it 3 times in my life, and haven't since tried it again, and these positive effects are still with me today, I've only gone and seen tool once, and that in of itself was a psychadelic expeirience, i was waaay in the back, but high up i could see everything that was going on; it was totally mezmerizing, i especially loved when they played this song, the music wraped itself around me. i was like a quivering child, being comforted by it's mother.

Lachrymologist
04-11-2003, 11:00 PM
"withered eye' refers to the fact that we haven't used it alot and therefore it is withered. We need to "pry' it open because, just like when you sleep for a long time and that gunk keeps your eye shut, the same thing could be applied to your third eye but with mental gunk. I would also say that this state can be achieved without the help of drugs, but is a lot harder. Your third eye doesn't offer an altered perspective, it presents a completely different perspective focused on emotions and mental things rather than physical.

Yiakovos
04-12-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Relentless
I read a book once that was written by a tibetan and he said that wen he was a little boy and he entered the "monastery", to open his third eye, three other lamas took him into a room and they actualy made an incision in his forehead until it got trough the bone, and then they put a piece of wood inside then left him there for three weeks, and wen they finaly they took it out they treated the boy with some herbs and other stuff, and wen hi finaly got out he could see the other people's auras, and he could not believe this, and he couldn't cotrol it either until after many years of practice.

Obviously they fucked his brain a bit. There are certain parts of the brain(mainly in the forehead) that can cause people to see lights if pressure is applied to it.

Lachrymologist
04-12-2003, 10:32 PM
Actually, the areas that can be touched to make the person see light as are in the occipital lobe, which is located in the back base of the brain. The frontal lobe (the part of the brain under the forehead) controls personality and the ability to form words and speech.

Save the Carrot
04-19-2003, 11:43 AM
On the first page of this thread, someone said that it was drugs making you see things.

Not true. Your mind has no limits imagination-wise, drugs are merely a catalyst.

Everything you come up with while fucked up is merely your own brain firing off in different patterns. It's you who's imagining that big purple polka-dotted elephant... not the drugs.

venusdatura
04-23-2003, 09:46 AM
My opinion....some drugs are definetly used to escape reality...hell who isn't on some sort of drug or have some sort of vice? From Meth to Prozac to Tylenol to Chocolate....true some are more addictive than others, some definetly more destructive. But I think that if what one sees and feels on the more natural drugs such as mushrooms....is false....then all life in a sense is false.....it's all just chemical reactions in the brain everything we think, feel and experience, including our experiences with a God would just be chemical reactions in the brain. My experience with things like mushrooms is that there is no way to escape yourself and your life when you are on them, in fact for me it made me look at myself, really look for the first time....both the negative and positive. As for mushrooms being addictive....well I certainly do not agree, but then again there are people out there who seem to get addictive to things very easily. Yes, you do not need drugs to have some of these experiences, and if you don't want to do drugs then don't, but if you have never tried them....then it's kind of difficult to see it from that side. I know I know you don't have to taste dirt to know you won't like it....but if you are going to have strong opinions on whether drug experiences are valid...you better know what the hell you are talking about. For the record I do not put mushrooms in the category of drugs...I just reference it here for conversation sake......drugs like Meth, Herion, Coke....etc., can be very harmful in my opinion. Beware these are not for the faint of heart.

merkaba52+2
04-24-2003, 09:24 PM
sure you can do this with drugs but it is unsafe
not saying that this is any safer you should really do this this a traind profeconal because there is danger in this too but merkaba.org is a good site to check at that but here goes for all you people that really wanna do this it is hard to do at first but you can really open your mind an imagination with this so

Like the sun, we must breathe, radiating out to all life. And from all life we will receive our manna.
Begin by creating a place in your home that is used only for this meditation. Make a space where no one will walk through or disturb you, possibly in your bedroom. A small altar with a candle and a cushion or pillow to sit upon may be helpful. Make this place holy. It is here that you will learn to create the MER-KA-BA around your body and make conscious contact with your higher self.
Once each day, enter into this meditation, until the time comes when you are a conscious breather, remembering with each breath your intimate connection with God. To begin the meditation, first sit down and relax. Let the worries of the day go. Breathe rhythmically and shallow. Be aware of your breath and relax. When you feel the tension begin to fade, begin to open your heart. Feel Love. Feel Love for all life everywhere. Continue to breathe rhythmically, being aware of your breath, and feel the Love moving through your spirit. When the FEELING of love is in your beingness, you are ready to begin to move towards the experience to the MER-KA-BA. Without this Love, no amount of knowledge will create the MER-KA-BA. To the degree you are able to Love, will be the degree you will be able to experience the MER-KA-BA.
The following is an overview of the meditation to reach the MER-KA-BA. There are seventeen breaths to reach completion. The first six are for balancing of the polarities within your eight electical circuits, and , also, for the cleansing of these circuits. The next seven, which are quite different, are to re-establish the proper pranic flow through your body, and to recreate Spherical Breathing within your body. The fourteenth breath is unique unto itself. It changes the balance of pranic energy within your body from third dimensional to fourth dimensional awareness. The last three breaths recreate the rotating fields of the MER-KA-BA within and around your body.
The instructions: The following instructions will be broken down into four areas: MIND, BODY, BREATH and HEART.
FIRST BREATH: Inhale
HEART: Open your heart and feel love for all life. If you cannot do this, you must at least open to this love as much as is possible for you. This is the most important instruction of all.
MIND: Become aware of the male tetrahedron (the apex facing up to the sun, the point facing to the front for male, the point to the back for females) filled with the brilliant white light surrounding your body. Visualize it the best you can. If you cannot visualize it, sense or feel it surrounding you.
BODY: At the same moment of inhalation, place your hands in the mudra of your thumb and first finger touching. Remember, lightly touch your fingers, and do not allow your fingers to touch each other or any other object. Keep your palms facing up.
BREATH: At this same moment, with empty lungs, begin to breath in a complete yogic manner. Breathe through your nostrils only, except at certain places which will be described. Simply put, breath from your stomach first, then your diaphragm, and finally your chest. Do this in one movement, not three parts. The exhale is completed either by holding the chest firm and relaxing the stomach, slowly releasing the air, or by holding the stomach firm and relaxing the chest. The most important aspect is that this breathing must be rhythmic. Begin by using seven seconds in and seven seconds out, but as you get familiar with this meditation, find your own rhythm.
The following instructions for a complete Yogic Breath are from "the Hindu-Yogi Science of Breath" by Yogi Ramacharake. Perhaps this description will be helpful. Breathing through the nostrils, inhale steadily, first filling the lower part of the lungs, which is accomplished by bringing into play the diaphagm, which descending exerts a gentle pressure on the abdominal organs, pushing forward the front walls of the abdomen. Then fill the midddle part of the lungs, pushing out the lower ribs, breastbone and chest. Then fill the higher portion of the lungs, protruding the upper chest, thus lifting the chest, including the upper six or even pairs of ribs. At first reading it may appear that this breath consists of three distinct movements. This, however, is not the correct idea. The inhalation is continuous, the entire chest cavity from the lowered diaphragm to the highest point of the chest in the region of the collar bone, being expanded with a uniform movement. Avoid a jerky series of inhalations, and strive to attain a steady continuous action. Practice will soon overcome the tendency to divide the inhalation into three movements, and will result in a uniform continuous breath. You will be able to complete the inhalation in a few seconds after a little practice. Exhale quite slowly, holding the chest in a firm position, and drawing the abdomen in a little and lifting it upward as the air leaves the lungs. When the air is entirely exhaled, relax the chest and abdomen. A little practice will render this part of the exercise easy, and the movement once acquired will be afterward performed almost automatically.
FIRST BREATH: Exhale
HEART: Love
MIND: Become aware of the female tetrahedron, (apex pointing to the earth, point facing to the back for males, point facing to the front for females), also filled with the brilliant white light.
BODY: Keep the same mudra.
BREATH: Do NOT hesitate at the top of the inhalation to begin the exhalation. Exhale quite slowly, approximately seven seconds, in the Yogic manner. When the air is out of the lungs, without forcing, relax the chest and abdomen and HOLD the breath. When you feel pressure to breathe again, after about five seconds or so, then do the following:
MIND: Be aware of the flat equilateral triangle at the top of the female tetrahedron located in the horizontal plane that passes through your chest at the sternum. In a flash, and with a pulse like energy, send that triangular plane down through the female tetrahedron. It gets smaller as it goes down and pushes out the tip or apex of the tetrahedron all the negative energy of the mudra or electrical circuit, a light will shoot out of the apex toward the center of the Earth. The Mind exercise is performed along with the following BODY movements.
BODY: Move your eyes slightly toward each other, or, in other words, slightly cross your eyes. Now bring them up to the top of their sockets, or in other words, look up. Also, this looking up motion should not be extreme. You will feel a tingling feeling between your eyes in the area of your third eye . You can now look down to the lowest point you can, as fast as you can. You should feel an electrical sensation move down your spine. The MIND and BODY must coordinate the above mental exercise with the eye movements. The eyes look down from their up position at the same time the mind sees the triangular horizontal plane of the female tetrahedron move down to the apex of the female tetrahedron. This combined exercise will clean out the negative thoughts and feelings that have entered into your electrical system. Specifically, it will clean out the part of your electrical system that is associated with the particular mudra you are using. Immediately upon pulsing the energy down your spine, you change mudras to the next one and begin the entire cycle over again.
The next five breaths are a repeat of the first breath with the following mudra changes:
Second breath mudra: Thumb and second finger together
Third breath mudra: Thumb and third finger together
Fourth breath mudra: Thumb and little finger together
Fifth breath mudra: Thumb and first finger together (same as first breath)
Sixth breath mudra: Thumb and second finger together( same as second breath)
The first part, the first six breaths, the balancing of the polarities, and the cleansing of your electrical system is now complete.
PART 2
You are now ready for the next part, the next seven breaths. Here an entirely new breathing pattern begins. You do not need to visualize the star tetrahedron at this time. Only the tube that runs through the star, from the apex of the male tetrahedron above your head to the apex of the female tetrahedron below your feet, needs to be seen and worked with. This extends one hand length above your head and one hand length below your feet. The diameter of YOUR tube will be the size of the hole formed by YOUR thumb and forefinger touching.
SEVENTH BREATH: Inhale
HEART: Love. There is another refinement here that can be used after you have perfected this meditation. It will be discussed in class.
MIND: Visualize or sense the tube running through your body. The instant you begin the seventh inhale, see the brilliant white light of the prana moving down the tube from the top and up the tube from the bottom at the same time. This movement is almost instantaneous. The point where these two light beams meet within your body is controlled by the mind and is a vast science known throughout the universe. In this teaching however, we will only be shown what is necessary , that which will take you from third to fourth dimensional awareness. In this case you will direct the two beams of prana to meet at your navel, or more correct, within your body at navel level, inside the tube. The moment the two beams of prana meet, which is just as the inhale begins, a sphere of white light or prana is formed at the meeting point about the size of a grapefruit centered on the tube. It all happens in an instant. As you continue to take the inhale of the seventh breath, the sphere of prana begins to concentrate and grow slowly.
BODY For the next seven breaths use the same mudra for both inhale and exhale, the thumb, first and second touching together palms up.
BREATH: Deep rhythmic Yogic breathing, seven seconds in and seven seconds out. There is no holding of the breath from now on. The flow of prana from the two poles will not stop or change in any way when you go from inhale to exhale. It will be a continuous flow that will not stop for a long as you breath in this manner, even after death.
SEVENTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: The prana sphere centered at the navel continues to grow. By the time of the full exhale, the prana sphere will be approximately eight or nine inches in diameter.
BREATH: Do not force the air out of your lungs. When your lungs are empty naturally, immediately begin the next breath.
EIGHTH BREATH: Inhale
HEART: Love.
MIND: The prana sphere continues to concentrate life force energy and grow in size.
EIGHTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: The prana sphere continues to grow in size and will reach maximum size at the end of this breath. This maximum size is different for each person. If you put your longest finger in the center of your navel, the line on your wrist defining your hand will show you the radius of the maximum size of this sphere for YOU. This sphere of prana cannot grow larger.
NINTH BREATH: Inhale
MIND: The prana sphere cannot grow larger, so what happens is the prana begins to concentrate within the sphere. The visual appearance is that the sphere grows BRIGHTER.
BREATH: Sphere grows brighter and brighter as you inhale.
NINTH BREATH: Exhale
BREATH: As you exhale, the sphere continues to grow brighter and brighter.
TENTH BREATH: Inhale
MIND: About half way through this inhale, as the sphere continues to brighter, the prana sphere reaches critical mass. The sphere ignites into a sun, a brilliant blinding ball of white light. You are now ready for the next step.
TENTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: At the moment of exhale, the small sphere two hand lengths in diameter bulges to expand. In one second, combined with the breath talked about below, the sphere expands quickly out to the sphere of Leonardo, out at your finger tips of your extended arms. Your body is now completely enclosed within a huge sphere of brilliant white light.
You have returned to the ancient form of spherical breathing. However, at this point, this sphere is not stable. You MUST breath three more times to keep the sphere stable.
BREATH: At the moment of exhale, make a small hole with your lips and blow out your air with pressure. As you feel the sphere begin to bulge, all within the first second of this exhale, let all of your air out rapidly. The sphere will expand at that moment.
PART3:
ELEVENTH, TWELFTH and THIRTEENTH BREATH: Inhale and Exhale
MIND: Relax and just feel the flow of the prana flowing from the two poles and meeting at the navel and then expanding out to the large sphere
BREATH: Breath rhythmically and deep. At the end of the thirteenth breath you have stabilized the large sphere and are ready for the important 14th breath.
THE FOURTEENTH BREATH
HEART: Love
MIND: On the inhale of the 14th breath, at the very beginning of the breath, move the point where the two beams of prana meet from the navel to the sternum, the fourth dimensional chakra. The entire large sphere, along with the original sphere, which is also still contained within the large sphere, moves up to the new meeting point within the tube. Though this is very easy to do, it is an extremely powerful movement. Breathing from this new point within the tube will inevitably change your awareness from third to fourth dimensional consciousness, or from earth consciousness to Christ consciousness. It will take awhile, but as I have said , it is inevitable.
BODY: This mudra will be used for the rest of the meditation. Place the left palm on top of the right palm for males and the right palm on top of the left palm for females. It is a mudra that relaxes.
BREATH: Rhythmic breath and deep. However, if you continue to breathe from your Christ center without moving on to the MER-KA-BA, which is what is recommended until you have made contact with your Higher Self, then shift to a shallow breath. In other words, breath rhythmically but in a comfortable manner where your attention is more on the flow of energy moving up and down the tube meeting at the sternum and expanding out to the large sphere. Just feel the flow. Use your feminine side to just be. At this point don't think, just breath, feel and be. Feel your connection to All Life through the Christ Breath. Remember your intimate connection with God.
The Mer-Ka-Ba, The Vehicle Of Ascension
The Last Three Breaths You are asked not to attempt this FOURTH PART until you have made contact with your Higher Self, AND your Higher Self has given you permission to proceed. This part is to be taken seriously. The energies that will come into and around your body and spirit are of tremendous power. If you are not ready, you could hurt yourself. If your Higher Self gives you permission to enter into the MER-KA-BA, then don't fear, for you will be ready.
FIFTEENTH BREATH: Inhale:
HEART: Love
MIND: Be aware of the whole star tetrahedron. Realize that there are three whole star tetrahedrons superimposed over each other. One is the body itself, and is locked in place and never, except under certain conditions, moves. It is placed around the body according to maleness or femaleness. The second whole star tetrahedron is male in nature, it is electrical, is literally the human mind and rotates counter-clockwise relative to your body looking out, or to put it another way, it rotates toward your left side. The third whole star tetrahedron is female in nature, is magnetic, is literally the human emotional body and rotates clockwise relative to your body looking out, or to put it another way, it rotates toward your right side. To be clear, we are not telling you to rotate the male tetrahedron one way and the female the other way. When we say rotate the whole star tetrahedron, we mean the whole thing. On the inhale of the fifteenth breath, as you are inhaling, you will say to yourself, in your head, the code words, EQUAL SPEED. This will tell your mind that you want the two rotatable whole star tetrahedrons to begin spinning in opposite directions at equal speeds at the time of the exhale. Meaning that for every complete rotation of the mind tetrahedrons, there will be a complete rotation of the emotional tetrahedrons.
BODY: Continue the mudra of the folded hands from now on.
BREATH: Breath Yogic and rhythmically an deeply again, but only for the next three breaths, after that return to the shallow breathing.
FIFTEENTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: The two sets of tetrahedrons take off spinning. In an instant, they will be moving at exactly one third the speed of light at their outer tips. You probably will not be able to see this because of their tremendous speed, but you can feel it. What you have just done is to start the MOTOR of the MER-KA-BA. You will not go anywhere, or have an experience. It is just like starting the motor of a car, but having the transmission in neutral.
BREATH: Make a small hole with your lips just like you did for breath Number Ten. Blow out in the same manner, and as you do, feel the two sets of tetrahedrons take off spinning.
SIXTEENTH BREATH: Inhale
MIND: This is the most amazing breath. On the inhale, as you are inhaling, say to yourself, in your head, THIRTY-FOUR - TWENTY-ONE. This is the code to your mind to spin the two sets of tetrahedrons at a ratio of 34-21. Meaning the Mind tetrahedrons spinning to the left will go around 34 times while the emotional tetrahedrons spinning to the right will go around 21 times. As the two sets speed up the ratio will remain constant.
BREATH: Breathe rhythmically and Yogic.
SIXTEENTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: As you let out the breathe, the two sets of tetrahedrons take off from their one third speed of light setting to two third speed of light in an instant. As they approach two thirds speed of light speed a phenomena takes place. A disk about 55 feet in diameter forms around the body at the level of the base of the spine. And the sphere of energy that is centered around the two sets of tetrahedrons forms with the disk to create a shape that looks like a FLYING SAUCER around the body. This energy matrix is called the MER-KA-BA. However, it is not stable. If you see or sense the MER-KA-BA around you at this point, you will know it to be unstable. It will be slowly wobbling.
Therefore Breath Number Seventeen is necessary.
BREATH: Same as breath 16, make a small hole in your lips, and blow out with pressure. It is at this point that the speeds increases. As you feel the speed increasing, let out all your breath with force. This action will cause the higher speed to be fully obtained and the MER-KA-BA to be formed.
SEVENTEENTH BREATH: Inhale
HEART: Remember, unconditional love for all life must be felt through out all of this meditation or no results will be realized.
MIND: As you breathe in, say to yourself, in your head, the code NINE TENTHS THE SPEED OF LIGHT. This code will tell your mind to increase the speed of the MER-KA-BA to nine tenths the speed of light which will stabilize the rotating field of energy. It will also do something else. This third dimensional universe that we live in is tuned to 9/10 the speed of light. Every electron in your body is rotating around every atom in your body at 9/10 the speed of light. This is the reason this particular speed is selected.
BREATH: Breathe rhythmically and in a Yogic manner.
SEVENTEENTH BREATH: Exhale
MIND: The speed increases to 9/10 the speed of light and stabilizes the MER-KA-BA.
BREATH: Same as breath 15 and 16, make a small hole in your lips, and blow out with pressure. As you feel the speed take off, let all your breath out with force. You are now in your stable and Third dimensionally tuned MER-KA-BA. With the help of your Higher Self, you will understand what this really means.
EIGHTEENTH BREATH: This very special breath will not be taught here. You must receive it from Your Higher Self. It is the breath that will take you through the speed of light into the fourth dimension. You will disappear from this world and reappear in another one that will be your new home for awhile. This is not the end, but the beginning of an ever expanding consciousness returning you HOME to your FATHER.
If you share this information with others, please make sure they have all the knowledge leading to this understanding. If they cannot get to a workshop, then let them see the videos of this workshop. If they cannot do that, then at least lead them through with the photographs.
If I can be of help in any way, or if there is anything that is not clear, please give me a call or write.


have fun and dont kill your selfs

Hogpile
05-14-2003, 11:36 AM
Man, if I got to do all that just hallucenate naturally, no fucking thanks. lol I got tired from just reading parts of that post, nevermind doing the shit. Whatever yanks your chain though. I'll stick to shrooms and acid for that mind-bending feeling.

SatresThirdEye
05-15-2003, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by desolateangel
Do you have to be under the influence of psychedelics in order to open your third eye? Can this be achieved naturally?

(i'm not promoteing drug use, but....)
The point isnt the feeling you get from the drugs, the point is the sense that you get if you do enough drugs like shrooms and acid or do enough buddhist meditiation and whatnot. Meditation doesnt give you the same feeling as shrooms, but it gives you the same sense of something more thats hard to explain. Each hallucengenic psychodelic drug gives you a different feeling, but they all point in the same direction.

They're mind expanders, just like meditation is, and once you take them, once you think certain thoughts or e'xpand your mind', you can never have not thought those things, you can never unthink those things.

The point of opening up the third eye isnt just tripping your balls off or meditateing till you feel all spaced out and chill, its realization you get from thinking in a different and sincerly unqiue way. Its breaking through the veil of ignorance so to speak.

When you look at something you dont just see that thing, you see that thing as your brain percives it, with all these attachments to it that you develop over the course of your life time experince. When you take shrooms you see those things in plain sight, if you meditate alot you get a similar thing going, everyday you get bombarded by tons of stimulation, and the majority of it you ignore, you pass by. Its kind of like stopping to really examine the world around you, and coming to your own conclusions.

You dont open your third eye by eating an eigth of shrooms on a sunday night and giggleing your ass off watching adult swim on cartoon network, just like you dont open your third eye if you sit outside in a feild and practice visspansana(spelling?) meditation under a tree all day, you got to aim high, you got to think, and realize what your feeling and thinking and understanding when everything is altered, you have to grasp the experince, i'd say the song does a better job explaining any of this better than I can.

In short, its not the effect of the drug, or the effect of meditation that matters, its the feeling you come away with from the experince, a feeling that you have to feel to understand. Thats my best attempt at it.

And i'm not promoteing drug use for all the kiddies out there. Playing with drugs is not something to do when your young, you could mess yourself up good and permently for the rest of your life. Esspecially if your still developing mentally and physically. One bad trip and you'll spend the rest of your days walking the streets talking to yourself with your hand in your pants.

If you want a healthly less dangerous start, go read Siddartha by Herman Hesse.

EuphoricBlue
05-15-2003, 10:07 PM
~Sighs~

This world has lost it's mind. THE WHOLE REASON WERE ON EARTH IS TO EXPERIMENT WITH PLANTS. Does anyone out there understand anything? This just gets me so mad when people underestimate plants such as mushrooms. Stropharia Cubensis use 15% of total energy to produce psilocybin. What the fuck does that tell you. READ MCKENNA...Listen to McKenna. Terence McKenna should be broadcast on every radio station. You guys are asking a question that is unholy to ask. OF COURSE plants are here to help with the third eye.
It is ignorant to think they are here for any other purpose. Now the same question was asked at the Parabola video forum and I'll clear this up the same way I cleared that up and thats with Alex Grey quote when someone asked him what the leaf initiates on the animation sequence. ENJOY!!!!

"Hey Friends,

I just wanted a plant to "initiate" the protagonist of the video. Igniting Sacred Plants have initiated millions of people into the higher mysteries..."

God~Psychedelic/Love~God

Well spoken.....plants to initiate god and union of polarities.
Never believe anything else....thats what Maynard is trying to say...Listen to Bill Hicks....Listen to Terence McKenna...its all right there and we got people asking a question as unneeded as that??????Hope this helps with the discussion!!!!!!!!

EuphoricBlue
05-15-2003, 10:15 PM
in responce to what SatresThirdEye said, acid will do the "wandering lost for life thing" but I was a "brick wall atheist" and I ate a FAT 8th of bomb shrooms and underestimated it and it smacked me down and awakened me. In "The psychedelic experience" the authors note that psychedelics are not for pure enlightenment but rather to awaken. And thats exactly what happened to me so if any of you want to talk about what mushrooms dont do..... YOUR WRONG....let me tell you, things are here for a reason dont forget that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue

dawn
05-15-2003, 10:16 PM
As much as I do not like to admit it...I am 'people'...therefor I am weak, lazy, and ignorant...I do not think I could have achieved my level of enlightenment with out them...Glory be to the ones that do not require these...tangibles...

SatresThirdEye
05-16-2003, 02:14 PM
(i'm not promoteing drug usage, but...)
I agree that shrooms are great, and I think they do alot of good on a personal level, and they have in my experince as well, but I know people who have had bad trips on shrooms, and acid for that matter, and i've seen alot of burn outs.

I'm not trying to take away from the ablitiy shrooms have to make you 'awake' to the underlying reality around you, all i'm saying is use caution. And i'm not promoteing them for everyone, I dont know who looks at this thing, and if your still a kid or an adult depending, playing with halucengenics can be seriously bad news. You'll fuck yourself royally. For that reason, I dont promote drug usage on this message board or to anyone who reads it.

But yeah, shrooms are good shit. And I think the world would be a lot better place if everyone tripped at least once in their life time. They open up your third eye so to speak, just be safe people, dont "trip till your soul's worn thin".

Drugs are like anything else, use them right, you'll get good results, abuse them like an idiot, and you'll get an idiots results. Don't be the young man who thought he could fly.

basschakra
05-21-2003, 09:44 PM
I have had a lot of enlightening experiences on drugs especially LSD, but I would have to say you can't cheat by opening your third eye through artificial causes, it will have to be natural. Drug use can affect your mental state and your perception, but some of it is a false reality. It is a tool to become "aware". After years of recreational drug use I discovered meditation. After practice I managed to reach the deepest level of meditation and open all my chakras from my base chakra to my crown chakra. I could feel so much energy coming into me that my crown chakra experienced a sensation close to thousands of tiny fingers massaging my head.

Go do meditation, become more spiritual.

Also for the statement that LSD affects seratonin - it does. People on SSRI's (medication that prevents reuptake of seratonin) report that LSD has little or no effect on them.

chemicalprophet
05-30-2003, 02:56 PM
Nobody knows exactly what or how LSD works. It does have a chemical structure almost identical to seritonin. It so well mimics the activity of seritonin that the brain thinks it is, and shoots it through the synaptic gap. However, Albert Hoffman recorded other analogues of LSD, two of which (BOL-148, MBL-61), despite following the same paths as LSD 25, have no psychedelic effects on man. So as of now, nobody knows exactly how LSD 25 does what it does. This is hardly surprising, considering how little we know about the brain.

As for the third eye, it is the ancient name for what we now call the pineal gland or epiphysis. It is responsible for the synthesis and direction of the neurotransmitters seritonin and melatonin. So, one could hypothesize that through focused meditation you slow or lower the production of melatonin and seritonin, altering your consciousness.

Tantobourne
05-30-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by desolateangel
Do you have to be under the influence of psychedelics in order to open your third eye? Can this be achieved naturally?

Lots of good responses in the thread so I'll just stick with the original question ; )

No, you don't. Everything you need is right there inside of you. I suppose it's your tendencies that will dictate how and when the 'third eye' is opened. I can't profess to say that I've done any such thing.

The closest I've ever come to the concept of a 'third eye' and enlightenment....touching the face of God...was on one hell of a acid trip with some friends in perfect surroundings with perfect music.

At that age I was already going out and exploring life outside the cozy family life. Typical teenage experimenting. So, in a sense, I was already on the path to prying it open. We all are, as long as we question and seek answers, doing this one thing.

The acid trip was amazing. Tracers from my fingertips were pulling at the fabric of the reality around me and I was entranced into a 'finger-dancing' with the air in front of me. It's funny in a way because as my hands darted about creating images out of air my friends that were entranced by it were naming what I was creating (ask me about the green martians climbing on the dog some other time).

It came down to...yes it might sound cheesy, "Melt With You" by ME. Don't scoff at a song with the word "melt" in it while on acid = )

Long story short, I was seeing and feeling things that I don't see in everyday life. Everything was a sea of color and heat, very frightening yet very comforting at the same time.

The days afterwards, and the subsequent introspection had me feeling desperately hollow. There was, at that point in the night, something that life...to date...has not fulfilled in me. I suppose I feel that I was privy to that 'void' referenced in eastern religion, that sea of possibilities that all things arise from. As the effects wore off I was left hovering over this spiritual chasm separating me from what I could only call ecstasy. I touched eternity and, because I was afraid, I ran away from it.

My drug use didn't end there of course, not for nearly another decade. No drug experience has ever captured that one perfect moment full of fear and beauty; no matter how much I wanted to get back there.

Maybe I'm bitter (aw, hell I know I am) but I believe that what LSD showed me that one fateful night was our potential. What we can open up to become and reach.

Sure, we can feed ourselves every drug under the sun and moon but, as one poster here mentioned, it's the 'hard way' that bears the most fruit. In the absence of that one moment I've only learned to appreciate it's beauty all the more.

I miss my drug use days. Even the sick days when I learned what if was like to be a speed-fiend. However, I'm determined to find in myself the ability to unlock that door; to open that eye and see.

What that one trip did for me was, in my own weak explanation, shock the system (isn't that what all drugs do, anyway?) to a point where all my synapses were locked open...sensory overload. I wasn't ready to face the onslaught of 'reality' that hit me. Like any foreign substance entered into our bodies, our body's defense system tries to expunge it, to counter-act its effect. While the body is overgrossed in getting rid of the LSD, I'm held in a state of thrall and where the body normally shutters the senses the windows are thrown wide open.

Over the course of time and drug use, I believe my body and mind learned to dampen this effect to the point where getting high was more a repetitive, vain ritual because of my high tolerance.

If you're going to use the drugs, use them in accordance with your tolerance. I don't think this 'third eye' is going to 'sproing' open through re-creational use. To find something, you have to actually be looking. Again, as was stated earlier in the thread, people have devised their meditations and methods to facilitate the journey.

Ultimately, though, the journey is your own. Drugs used with the right approach and spirit can definately speed things up. The trepidation would be in whether you're able to comprehend what comes through and not end up burning oneself out in the process.

Perhaps the experiences in our life prepare us for the moment when the floodgates do burst. Instead of trying to absorb and comprehend every minutia all at once the experiences of life which we've had a chance to contemplate over would stem the flow and separates what we already comprehend from the unknown that rushes to greet us.

Either way, if you manage to make it there, send my Love and make it known that I'll be back soon.

*grin*

-MeEp

OpiAtE_666
06-10-2003, 09:02 PM
First of all I'd like to point out that LSD and mushrooms are not addictive. Neither physically nor psychologically. And it is nearly impossible to overdose on either of them.

Now in response to the original question:

It is possible to reach an open-minded state much like the 1rst of the 3 stages of a psychedelic experience. These 3 stages are discussed in Timothy Leary's book, "The Psychedelic Experience."

stage 1: A sense of unity with nature, a sense of "enlightenment".

stage 2: hallucinations

stage 3: normal, non drug-induced state

Now those of you who have experimented with hallucinogens know that you don't just go thru the stages in order, you're constantly switching from one to another for about 5 hours if you're eating mushrooms and about 12 hours if you're doing LSD. These drugs can not only "open your third eye" and give you a tremendous sense of insight about life, nature, society, etc. but they also heighten creativity and provide you with one of the most memorable experiences you will ever have.

Hallucinogens aren't for everyone, but if you have a sense of adventure, and you would like to pry open your third eye, I suggest a psychedelic experience. Once you have put yourself in that state of mind, it will be easier to reach it without the help of drugs. You will not become dependant on them, they will just open you up to a world that would have been nearly impossible for you to experience otherwise. I don't see a mushroom trip as a "false experience." In fact prayer and meditation are both man-made, and mushrooms grow naturally upon th earth. So, if you don't think you can handle hallucinogens, don't take them, but if you would like to experience something new and reach a new state of mind, i can think of no better way then good ol' fashioned psilocybin.

Mehhico
06-11-2003, 02:50 AM
OpiatE_666..........you should be knighted. That was a very well put thought and I agree with you 100%. I used to, not force, but encourage drug taking (specifically mushrooms or LSD, nothing else) to people for that experience which they would never have come across otherwise. In this state, thoughts fly a million miles an hour, but each has its own train which we can jump on and delve deeper into if we wish. Through this state of mind, we can learn more about anything, especially ourselves.
I do stress that some people just KNOW that that sort of thing is not for them, and I respect that.
Sorry, I don't really have much to say, I only wanted to throw a congratulatory salute to the man who posted before me.

Take care,
Andy

Dedication
06-14-2003, 12:46 AM
If someone can achieve the same kind of eye-opening results by meditating that many people do by experimenting with psychedelic substances, that's great and more power to them.

But I think what a lot of intelligent posters are advocating here in this thread is that people shouldn't be afraid of psychedelics, nor should people have a condemning attitude towards the individuals who make the choice to seek new experiences and new ways of seeing things with the help of psychedelics.

My attitude is that as long as people do their research and preferably have an experienced guide to look after them, there is a lot to gain from experimenting with psychedelics.

I wouldn't call any of my trips a revelation or a great success, but I don't regret any of them either. Haven't tripped out for a couple of years now, really, but I'm sure I will again. All it needs is the right time and the right place, And a plastic cup full of fresh shrooms. *slurp*

I can almost taste the sand in my mouth.

Latitudinarian
06-17-2003, 11:07 AM
Thats another question that makes u think.Is this real or a illusion?If you havent ever took a step back for a min an asked yourself that question u havent lived.I started getting into all this stuff recently and if you wanna talk about something makeing u listen to tool in a new way.Study Metaphysics an Ontology an Transcendentalism if you havent already.I know every Tool song now is a new experience.Its like getting ur first copy of Aenima all over again.......at least for ME.........hope it hleps someone.Tootles

PRNinja23
07-01-2003, 07:20 AM
From my personal experience, I have tried to see it both ways - with drugs and sober. You will not see the truth with drugs. You'll think you see it, but your perception is being controlled by the drug. The Third Eye is an emotional gateway, and you can't feel real emotions under the influence of drugs, because drugs alter your emotions and replace them with pleasant euphoria. I agree with Floydian Theory, that sometimes drugs can be a "jump-start" on your spirituality.

"I thought I was high, I thought I was free, I thought I was under divine destiny. I was wrong. This changes everything." (Flood)

This "divine destiny" feeling may come at first with drugs, but it won't stay. This is what he's talking about with "Why are you running away?" ('You' refers to the anima / soul) The Third Eye is closing because he's trying to pry it open with drugs.

Kenna
07-16-2003, 06:03 AM
I agree. Drugs can get you into a more open minded state quicker, but then also take it away quicker. Trying to find your third eye within yourself without the influence of drugs is harder, but in the end it will probably be more worth it. But I am not saying that experimenting with shrooms or LSD is wrong either, you should always try things for yourself and not always listen to what others say about a certain drug because it does effect everyone differently.
I think the post before me about the Third Eye song was correct about what the band is saying in that verse....I never would have thought of it that way, but it makes a lot of sense.

spacemonkey
07-23-2003, 11:51 AM
What use is an open eye to a blind man?

Drugs may be another way of opening the door but until you are mentally and spiritually ready it will not give you peace and understanding.

Mr. Zebra
07-29-2003, 12:39 AM
I agree with PRNinja23. And I know I'm going to be accused of closed-mindedness, but I can't help feeling that all of this is utterly pointless and useless. Just live, people. What is accomplished by creating a singular experience within your own mind that is inapplicable to the exploration of actual reality? Introducing foreign chemicals to your brain alters your perception, but not reality- all you're doing is locking yourself off from the world and disconnecting, wonderful as it may feel to you. To test this, one of you do some shrooms or acid. Then, with witnesses present, I'll shoot you in the head, or hit you with a car. Life is waiting, people. Don't let it pass you by. Use the time you have to be effective. Opening your Third Eye- that emotional gateway; that ability to see things as they are and be self actualized- is essential, but meaningless if not put to use. Don't use drugs to shut yourself off from life- embrace it. Don't submit to a meaningless, useless euphoria created in you by a plant. It WILL deaden you to the basic joys of existence. That's what tolerance is- your brain needs more of the chemical to be happy; to function normally and effectively. Soon you may no longer experience joy at all. Just listen to "Undertow"- "twice as high as heaven, twice as clear as reason". Then, "half as high as heaven, half as clear as reason". Addicts, tell that voice to SHUT UP. To stop saturating you. At least, that's what I would encourage. I would like to believe that you're capable of dealing with your life and making yourself through your own will; of doing it on your own, of fulfilling your potential yourself. Of course, I'm not your mother. And maybe you're not.

Oh, and I can give you a staggering list of freinds of mine, including myself, that will vouch for the psychological addictiveness of shrooms and LSD. I don't know what the hell OpiAtE_666 is talking about.

neochrist
08-05-2003, 10:41 PM
mr. zebra is right, using drugs does not change your reality, it changes your perception of reality, but what mr. zebra failed to mention is that there our thousands of chemicals in your body that distort your perception anyways, you dont see true reality to begin with so whats the difference in changing your perception every now and then with drugs, you don't see true reality, you perceive true reality, drugs just change your perception of true reality, so i guess what there really trying to say is that, the perception you see normally is to be more experienced than the perception of while your under the influence of any drug.

The Nailing
08-06-2003, 07:00 AM
Uh, Seretonin is not what your saying it is man. Seretonin is the chemical in your brain that measures feelings of pleasure. Seretonin is released when you do things that make you feel good. (e.g. having sex, playing your favorite games, doing ecstacy) I've never heard of shrooms or acid having much to do with seretonin.
i think you're just flat wrong, or you're thinking of another chemical in the brain. . .dopamine perhaps?

http://www.csuchico.edu/psy/BioPsych/serotonin.html

Hogpile
08-06-2003, 11:36 AM
i think you're just flat wrong, or you're thinking of another chemical in the brain. . .dopamine perhaps?

http://www.csuchico.edu/psy/BioPsych/serotonin.html

First of all man, if your going to disagree with something I posted(like 5 months ago by the way)have a stance on it, and explain why I'm wrong. Secondly, if your going to post some lameass little "hey look how smart I am, I typed serotonin in the little search box thing and looky this article that is completely fucking useless in explaining what serotonin is came up", to look like your smart at least read it yourself and see why it has no bearing on if I'm right/wrong. Thanks for correcting me though.

The Nailing
08-06-2003, 01:04 PM
i read the page, and it is sufficient to disprove what you said

"Seretonin is the chemical in your brain that measures feelings of pleasure. Seretonin is released when you do things that make you feel good."

. . .what does it matter if it was 5 months ago? Do you take it back now or something


if you don't believe me, lets refernce the page itself in accordance with what you said

Hogpile: "I've never heard of shrooms or acid having much to do with seretonin."

Website: "Some drugs which distort perception (e.g. LSD) bind to one type of serotonin receptor
(5-HT2). Serotonin synapses are abundant in the cerebral cortex making it likely that they are involved in the processes of perception in some way. "

The site seems credible enough, even going as far as to include a bibliography.

Look I don't care that you were wrong, but there was no "stance" to be taken. What was already said in this thread was enough. There is no "opinion" about serotonin, there are facts. I included the website as back-up in case you wanted to READ FOR YOURSELF. . .but very well. . .

Hogpile
08-07-2003, 06:16 AM
i read the page, and it is sufficient to disprove what you said

"Seretonin is the chemical in your brain that measures feelings of pleasure. Seretonin is released when you do things that make you feel good."

. . .what does it matter if it was 5 months ago? Do you take it back now or something


if you don't believe me, lets refernce the page itself in accordance with what you said

Hogpile: "I've never heard of shrooms or acid having much to do with seretonin."

Website: "Some drugs which distort perception (e.g. LSD) bind to one type of serotonin receptor
(5-HT2). Serotonin synapses are abundant in the cerebral cortex making it likely that they are involved in the processes of perception in some way. "

The site seems credible enough, even going as far as to include a bibliography.

Look I don't care that you were wrong, but there was no "stance" to be taken. What was already said in this thread was enough. There is no "opinion" about serotonin, there are facts. I included the website as back-up in case you wanted to READ FOR YOURSELF. . .but very well. . .

My point was............your link said "Serotonin synapses are abundant in the cerebral cortex making it likely that they are involved in the processes of perception in some way. " and thats it. It did not explain what serotonin is. It did not explain specificly what parts of the senses(besides perception) serotonin affects. Heres what you should have posted:

Dopamine - A Sample Neurotransmitter

One of the neurotransmitters playing a major role in addiction is dopamine. Many of the concepts that apply to dopamine apply to other neurotransmitters as well.
As a chemical messenger, dopamine is similar to adrenaline. Dopamine affects brain processes that control movement, emotional response, and ability to experience pleasure and pain.

Had you done so, I would say what I'm saying now. I stand corrected. I WAS referring to dopamine and not serotonin, but I had my terms confused. My bad.

OpiAtE_666
08-18-2003, 12:04 PM
I don't think anyone should preach against psychadelics unless they've tried them themselves. Psychadelic drugs have had an enormously positive impact on my life. I feel I'm a better, more spiritual person and I know many people who feel the same way.

A psychadelic experience can't be described to someone who's never experienced it, it's one of those few things that you have to experience for yourself. It will help you find the truth, however disturbing or enlightening that truth is. I practice meditation, and I can tell you that I would never have been able to reach the levels of consciousness that I've explored while on mushrooms without the use of drugs. I can't stress enough how important it is to just keep an open mind about these things. If you personally have chosen the "anti-drug" path, don't force your beliefs on other people, because drugs, if treated with respect, and used responsibly can be life-altering positive experiences. They can help you find God.

Krypto
09-06-2003, 03:24 PM
I've never done any drugs...... but I can't see how doing drugs opens your eye to a different plane of existence or whatever.

Sure it alters your perception, and can be the coolest experience or sensation you've ever had, but it's just your mind processing information differently.

If you see your fingers making tracers, it's just the effect of the drugs, not some kind of energy field or whatever that we can't normally see.

I'm not downplaying the experience at all, and frankly am very curious, but it's just your mind running on different gas. You're not gonna find God, you're just learning more about yourself.

If you can suddenly see infared or radio waves, then you're on to something.

Mr. Zebra
09-10-2003, 09:59 PM
OpiatE_666- I HAVE tried them. My position stands- read my last post.

Opium of the Masses
09-11-2003, 12:53 AM
Krypto - as you said, you arent speaking from experience, so dont you think its a little premature to say with certainty that the use of psychadelics wont allow you to see alternate planes ?

You talked about energy feilds around people - I've seen that while smoking pot, despite the fact that I never beleived in that kind of thing until I had the experience of seeing it.

I havent explored other substances yet, but I have a plan for an LSD experience after final exams when I have nothing on my mind and can truly relax with friends, with proper set and setting. I'll tell you what I think after I've done it.

My advice to everyone - Experimentation is a good thing. If you hate it, fine, dont ever do it again. Just dont tell other people not to try it - They may just learn something from the experience. Its worth experimenting with psychadelics just to see what you discover.

Krypto
09-13-2003, 12:12 PM
My advice to everyone - Experimentation is a good thing. If you hate it, fine, dont ever do it again. Just dont tell other people not to try it - They may just learn something from the experience. Its worth experimenting with psychadelics just to see what you discover.

Like I said, very curious, but that's just my take on the subject. Personally I'd never do any drugs, I'm a pilot and don't want any complications with medicals and such.

But after reading this thread, I'm that much more open to trying LSD.

T00L
09-27-2003, 09:15 PM
Well...I'm 23 and I don't drink or do drugs and I'm still here so I would have to say No. Drugs are not necessary.

I think drugs are for the weak minded that are to lazy to get an emotional high through whatever floats your boat.
Music, sports, skydiving, yoga, meditation, religion, etc..etc..

philosophomore
09-28-2003, 04:00 PM
I agree with PRNinja23. And I know I'm going to be accused of closed-mindedness, but I can't help feeling that all of this is utterly pointless and useless. Just live, people. What is accomplished by creating a singular experience within your own mind that is inapplicable to the exploration of actual reality? Introducing foreign chemicals to your brain alters your perception, but not reality- all you're doing is locking yourself off from the world and disconnecting, wonderful as it may feel to you. To test this, one of you do some shrooms or acid. Then, with witnesses present, I'll shoot you in the head, or hit you with a car. Life is waiting, people. Don't let it pass you by. Use the time you have to be effective. Opening your Third Eye- that emotional gateway; that ability to see things as they are and be self actualized- is essential, but meaningless if not put to use. Don't use drugs to shut yourself off from life- embrace it. Don't submit to a meaningless, useless euphoria created in you by a plant. It WILL deaden you to the basic joys of existence. That's what tolerance is- your brain needs more of the chemical to be happy; to function normally and effectively. Soon you may no longer experience joy at all. Just listen to "Undertow"- "twice as high as heaven, twice as clear as reason". Then, "half as high as heaven, half as clear as reason". Addicts, tell that voice to SHUT UP. To stop saturating you. At least, that's what I would encourage. I would like to believe that you're capable of dealing with your life and making yourself through your own will; of doing it on your own, of fulfilling your potential yourself. Of course, I'm not your mother. And maybe you're not.

Oh, and I can give you a staggering list of freinds of mine, including myself, that will vouch for the psychological addictiveness of shrooms and LSD. I don't know what the hell OpiAtE_666 is talking about.



First of all, (no offense) but I do think you are being closed-minded on this particular issue. You obviously are not a newcomer to drugs, and your description of the perils of addiction I thought was quite accurate; but I think the problem with what you said is that you fail to make any sort of distinction between drug ADDICTS and drug USERS. Surely you are not suggesting that people who occasionally use psychotropic alkaloids for spiritual purposes (or even just to have a good time) are the intended recipients of the warnings in "Undertow"? Come on man, drug use does not equal drug abuse!!!!


You say that all the plants do is create a "meaningless and useless euphoria... that will deaden you to the basic joys of existence." This could not be more incompatible with my life. My experiences with Cannabis have made me so much more appreciative of the simple things in life and of the joys of just "being". Occasionally with psychedelics, I have been able to temporarily stop playing the Eric Wiseman game and take a really objective look at my own patterns of behavior; almost where it felt like being my own therapist or something. I really don't have the lyrical capacity to describe the depth of my experiences to someone who hasn't had them but that doesn't make them any less valid for me.

People have a tendency to infer that everyone else experiences reality the same way they do, and this is the mistake that OpiAtE_666 made when he stated that psychedelics cannot be psychologically addicting. (I have to admit that I have a hard time imagining how one could become psychologically addicted to them to the point that you needed them to feel normal; but I do believe you that this was your experience of them.) But when you say that all they provide is a meaningless false reality and a deadening of the senses, aren't you doing the same thing by projecting your experiences of these drugs onto the drugs themselves, instead of allowing the possibility that the way that you used them and allowed yourself to abuse them was what was responsible for your negative experiences? Psychedelic drugs are so named because they do not produce a predictable effect but bring to the fore whatever is latent within the unconscious. (from greek meaning "mind manifesting")

When you say that drugs alter your perception but not reality, I would also disagree. As Carl Jung said once, "It is an almost absurd prejudice to suppose that existence can only be physical. As a matter of fact, the only form of existence of which we have immediate knowledge is psychic. We might well say, on the contrary, that physical existence is a mere inference, since we know of matter only insofar as we percieve psychic images mediated by the senses." I believe that perception is reality. As to your example of shooting a tripper, I don't know of any experiments like that that have ever been recorded, but I will say that common sense is not an inerrant guide to the Truth. And just remember, we still know hardly anything about the workings of consciousness. You would have once been ridiculed for believing that the earth was spherical just the way a materialist would laugh at me for saying what I just did.

I wholeheartedly agree with your admonition to "just LIVE!" But MY singular experiences with drugs have really opened me up to this way of thinking rather than deadening it. I would be the first to say that using drugs to escape your problems is not wise, but that is not how I use them.

I will end this massively long post (sorry=) with an analogy about how all too often drugs themselves get the blame for people's misuse of them. Let's imagine someone that is new to this country, and has never seen an automobile before. Anyway, now imagine, that with no instruction whatsoever, this person is given the opportunity to drive a car. He finds that it is relatively easy to do after the initial getting used to and is soon rocketing down the freeway, passing cars left and right. He is full of exhilaration and barely contained excitement. Well, then he gets off of the freeway and decides to drive in the city. He pulls up to an intersection with blind corners, but cannot understand why all the other vehicles have stopped, or what the yellow machines with the colored lights hanging from wires everywhere are supposed to be and thinks to himself, "what a curious culture, these other drivers must just be tired." He proceeds to pass them in the other lane, and is hit by a speeding gas truck, which explodes, killing everyone in the vicinity of the intersection.

My point is this--- even though this catastrophe could not have happened if this person had never had the opportunity to drive one, would anyone be so obtuse as to blame the car?

Mr. Zebra
10-02-2003, 10:54 AM
That was very well thought out. Bravo. i would only submit that under certain circumstances, it is possible that the perspective and happy connectedness with immediacy you describe as being acheived when under the influence could be an illusion created by the drug- there lies the problem. I too am a student of Jung, but I doubt his reference to the apparent pervasiveness of a psychic existence is meant as an argument for a disregard of concious interaction (through shared realizations stemming from shared observations) with a functioning human community. Drugs, in my experience, do not provide a functional reality, but rather a physically observable release of brain chemicals. I don't argue for nonexistance of the nonmaterial beyond our simple physiology; I belive quite the contrary, actually; I merely pose the question- "what reality are you living in???" How well do your drug experiences line up with anything usable or potential-building? Everyone whom I've asked describes an escape; describes being cut off from the trappings of everyone else's reality. I would simply argue that the drug is doing exactly what those who use it want- making them happy. This is accompalished by dopemine release. This doesn't mean that the experience created by this chemical release (observable, of course,) is usable or valid. Your argument is "prove that it isn't". I would say, "prove that it is". I've never met a user that has thanked the drug for what it has accomplished, or helped him to accomplish, in his own life after he's free of it's influence. However, you are right in that exceptions may exist. Some people are perfectly happy in this haze of self-gratification and continued validation of one's own altered perspective. I suppose, as I said before, that this is the reality that they live in.
Oh, and about the car- the difference is, driving that particular car didn't alter the driver's perspective from those in the cars around him, thus producing a crash. They were all seeing the same thing. That isn't the case with drugs (see paragraph 1).

Peace, & thanks for your insight!

philosophomore
10-07-2003, 07:43 PM
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I would like to address some of the points that you made, and I would also like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss these issues without the heated emotion that normally defines these positions; so instead of seeking victory, perhaps we can come to a better mutual understanding.

First of all, you suggest that the experiences that we are discussing could be merely illusions created by neurochemical occurrences in the brain. I will start off by admitting what you probably already know, and that is that I can't prove to you that these experiences are "real" because they are my own subjective experiences and we have no way of objectively verifying their reality. It is a situation rather like not knowing if you percieve the color red the same way I do. As a matter of fact, "red" does not objectively exist. Technically it is only electromagnetic vibrations with a wavelength of aproximately seven ten-thousandths of a milimeter.

Though I have always found science fascinating, I do not like scientific reductionism. For example, if it could be discovered (and this IS quite possible) that a genetic disposition is what is responsible for people's taste in music, and that Tool fans merely love their particular sound because their brains are of a specific type that releases pleasurable neurotransmitters (like dopamine*) in response to specific combinations of sound frequencies (think of a "Toolgasm"), would that make you like them any less? Or make your subjective feelings about them any less important to you? I think it makes no difference what caused your brain to act the way it does; whether the chemical reactions in your brain were induced endogenously or exogenously, they still produce the same result.

*[D]i-hydr[O]xy [P]henyl[AMINE] is not technically what is being released with drugs like LSD and Cannabis; they actually have a much more complex effect on the brain than simply releasing neurotransmitters. Though the brain is constantly using some small amounts of dopamine (to transmit nerve impulses), the main drugs that release significant amounts of it are stimulants that are derived from (or have similar molecular structure to) cocaine and amphetamine (in all their various forms). By the way, please don't think I'm trying to "one-up" you or anything- that's not my intention at all! (and maybe you knew this stuff anyway) I've just always thought neurochemistry was very interesting, and I thought some other people might too.

Another sentiment that I have heard often espoused by non-drug users is that these "artificial" experiences will somehow have a detrimental effect on one's ability to later have similar experiences "naturally."

I do not find this assumption viable; let me offer an analogy (again) to explain why. It was once a widely held belief that masturbation was an unnatural pleasure that was sure to ruin the healthy development of one's sexuality. Now, ever since the Sexual Revolution, this misconception has been generally abandoned. Most everyone would acknowledge that masturbation, while it is (generally =) not as fulfilling as the act of coitus, has been recognized as a healthy, normal practice that can help prepare oneself for the real thing; by helping to alleviate anxiety, improving self-control, and helping to accustom one to the state of sexual arousal (which, as I'm sure you well know, is also a state of altered consciousness).

I think that it is a bit premature to conclude, in the absence of strong corroboratory evidence, that so-called "artificial" spiritual experiences will effectively impede the attainment of those states later on. Quite on the contrary, I strongly believe that these experiences can help to awaken and prepare oneself for the eventual realization of our full cognitive potential. However, I'm
sure that most would agree that an obsession with masturbation
could lead to a very destructive effect on the healthy development of one's sexuality, and I would argue that this is also the case with drug obsession/addiction. And, if you will permit me to extend the anology, just as (even REALLY good =)
masturbation will not on its own bring about a sexual encounter, even the repeated experience of transcendance will not affect a spiritual enlightening by itself. I believe that you said it best my friend, opening your third eye is meaningless if not put to use. I agree with this statement with every ounce of conviction that I possess.

philosophomore
10-07-2003, 09:54 PM
I think that the psychotropic alkaloids have an awesome potential to reveal understanding and insight about our true nature, but I have also borne witness to examples of their fearsome potential for destruction. Yet, I maintain that even these widely diverged poles of potential effects have nothing whatsoever to do with the psychoactive itself, but rather that the outcome is determined by the psychological structure of the user, and the manner in which it is used. (Set and Setting, as my friend Tim would say =) This is what I was trying to get across with the car analogy, but as you succinctly pointed out, it was too simple for such a complex issue.

Something that you remarked, that you've never encountered a former drug user that honestly felt that he had benefitted from their use, I believe can best be understood by asking another question. If you sincerely felt that something has played an important positive role in your development, why would you stop using it? The road to enlightenment is a lifelong process; and I believe that mankind has been given potent tools from God/Nature to assist us in that development. But it is up to us to choose how we will use that power. We can use them carelessly and reap the consequences of that behavior. We can even be casually indifferent to them. Or, we can use them with the respect that they are due. These plants have been around as long as we have, and their ceremonial use was one of the most, not necessarily popular, but widespread practices of human beings up until the last century. And every culture eventually learned to recognize them for what they are; Sacred.

And please let me state right now, for the record, that I don't have any problems with the SAFE and occasional use of these drugs. Some of the most enjoyable experiences that I have ever had were occasioned by drugs, and when I advance to the next level one day, and my life flashes before my eyes, I hope that I spend a lot of time on those years*. Does that mean that I've begun to rely on them for fun? Certainly not. Because I have realized that dependance leads inevitably to varying degrees of destruction. But I will not deny that the respectful use of these alkaloids can be a wonderful form of entertainment, and can often be far more satisfying than the "great big festering neon distractions" that pass for entertainment in our culture. But though entertainment certainly has an important role to play in our lives, it is seldom very productive.

And so the question remains, how DOES one use these substances in a manner which will affect positive changes in one's life? The escapist who would wish to be fulfilled by means of drug-induced happiness is lazy and narcissistic. And I cannot speak to the ecstatic experiences of which I have heard so colorfully described, because I have never had them. However, once again I would point out that this has nothing to do with the drugs, but it results from a particular anxiety complex that I have always been plagued with in situations that I cannot control. Basically, I just have a REAL hard time "letting go." So I have put myself on hiatus from psychedelic (hallucinogenic) doses until I resolve this unfortunate neurosis. But I dare say, this personality defect probably would have gone unnoticed for some time, had I not had these experiences which, though quite uncomfortable at the time, had the effect of making me aware of unconsious tendencies that may have otherwise gotten the better of me.

This brings me to what I have always been fascinated by with lower (psycholytic [mind-loosening]) doses of drugs like LSD, and that is that it becomes really quite impossible to decieve oneself when under their influence. (For me, anyway.) And the ego is quite skilled at self-deception. There is an ancient saying from the Talmud, "we see things not as they are, but as WE are." Low doses allow your ego to continue functioning, but with the ability to perceive things without the preconceived notions that normally filter information processing. You apprehend things the way that "God" would, or, if you like, a million year-old consciousness, or the way that the material world would appear to an alien that had never seen Earth. The intrinsic value (I think) in experiencing non-ordinary states of consciousness is simply that. These states are undeniably distinct from normal waking consciousness. I am not trying to argue that any of the states of consciousness are somehow better than one another. (Though I would say that our normal state is best suited for adaptility at this particular juncture in history, unless of course, you live away from modern societies.)
All that I am saying is that by being different, they can offer a useful different perspective on one's life. (Excuse my penchant for quotes, but Aldous Huxley expressed this better than I can.)

"I am not so foolish as to equate what happens under the influence of mescaline or of any drug, prepared or in the future preparable, with the realization of the end and ultimate purpose of human life: Enlightenment, the Beatific Vision. All I am suggesting is what Catholic Theologians call 'a gratuitous grace,' not necessary to salvation, but potentially helpful and to be accepted thankfully, if made available. To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are perceived directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large- this is an experience of inestimable value to anyone..." The Doors of Perception, 1954

As a fellow student of psychology, I'm sure you would agree that it is infinitely more difficult to psychoanalyze oneself than others. And the object of studying philosophy is to know one's own mind. Surely you can see the potential usefulness of gaining objective perspectives on one's life. And how these perspectives could be used to shed light on one's (normally unconscious) patterns of behavior. I think that these opportunities to temporarily perceive ourselves from an objective standpoint can be immensely helpful on the road to self-actualization, or what Jung called the Process of Individuation.

As with anything that one learns though, it will soon be forgotten if it is not applied to one's life. But, the blame for not learning from one's experiences should not fall on the Teacher, but upon the Pupil. I feel that the most salient reason why large numbers of people in today's societies do not use psychoactives in a manner which will benefit their lives (other than the general anti-intellectualism that pervades popular culture) is a direct result of their illegal status. Think about it, those who do use chemicals for the purpose of self-discovery and the enrichment of life are most likely not going to be very vocal about it, much less enthusiastic to show others the way, for fear of getting their asses thrown in Prison. I mean DAMN, because of anachronistic laws and propaganda that continues to this day, the relatively young science of psychology is being denied a tool that I think could do for it what the development of the microscope did for biology and medicine!

Excuse me, I'm getting off on a rant about the war on drugs. My point was that, if people have to learn how to do something in secret and in fear of punishment and without instruction or guidance, how well are they going to be able to learn it? Especially since so many are not even aware that there is anything to be learned...


I know that this was insanely long for a post and I probably should apologize, but I guess that anyone still reading this is probably interested in these matters. Mr. Zebra, thank you for your constructive critisizm of my original post. This is very enjoyable, but even more than that, it is a very IMPORTANT discussion, and I would be happy to hear from anyone with regard to this issue.

Be careful out there-----Peace!

Mr. Zebra
10-08-2003, 04:07 PM
Ditto, and thank you to you as well. You gave me a lot to think about. Peace out! (Oh yes- sorry if it didn't come off this way but I too HATE "scientific reductionism", as you put it. I'm a musician; I have to. "These aren't just vibrations, dammit!" :)

philosophomore
10-08-2003, 04:28 PM
Pleasure doin' business w/you, sir =)

philosophomore
10-09-2003, 01:02 PM
By the way (if anyone cares), the 1st sentence of the 3rd paragraph in my last big post should actually say that I don't have any problems with the SAFE and occasional [recreational] use of these drugs. Leaving out that word threw off the whole context of that paragraph (damnit damnit damnit!!! =) but I have missed my alloted time to edit and I don't want to bother Dan just because I'm a dumbass.

AllforUnity
10-10-2003, 11:44 PM
l don't know if l see drugs as a way to see different ways and such...l see drugs as something that takes you into more of a dreamy reality...you can think you "realize" alot of stuff when you're on drugs...but it's almost just like having a dream...Someone who doesn't believe in Aliens could go dream about them, but that doesn't mean they'll be convinced they exist...just an example. l just don't see drugs as something that seduces reality, or something...lt's more like you're "tripping" and you're seeing things in a dream-like "reality", and you think you just realized how to build a time machine...it doesn't mean it's going to work.

philosophomore
10-14-2003, 12:45 PM
I think the dream analogy is an appropriate one; I have always described a psychedelic experience as like unto a dream in which one is awake. However, be careful that you don't devalue the dream state by attempting to reduce the drug experiences that we are discussing to MERE dreams. As a matter of fact, dreams remain one of the most mysterious phenomena in all human existence and are the subject of much speculation and study--> But you should bear in mind that no one can conclude shit about them for sure. Are you aware of recent dream research that indicates that the human body undergoes the same physiological changes relative to the conscious experience of the mind? In other words, when you dream about climbing a mountain, your body goes through the exact same changes that you would when you climb a mountain in your normal conscious state. Just stuff to think about...

thewayuwhisper
10-17-2003, 08:37 PM
Drugs (marijuana/shrooms) in collaboration with Tool have proven to be a positive contribution to my life. I started smoking marijuana my 18th summer, shrooms came shortly after. The way I was introduced to these drugs greatly altered my perception of reality and my interests in general. I immediately grew impatient with anything mainstream. It didn't really feel like I was rebelling or escaping life at all though. It felt more like I was unlocking these desires for anything inspiring. Enter Tool. This original sound and Bob Frissel-like ideals, really grabbed a hold of me. It felt so secret. Partly because none of my peers even had a clue. Not that I really cared. Also because it's truly therapy while in these drug induced moments. This whole section of my brain has been uncovered and craving inspiration (which is often fed by Tool.) I'm twenty now, and in the prime of my Tool listening, which will most definitely continue for quite sometime. As I look back, all the memories/experiences/moments of clarity/feelings of being connected have enriched my life more than I ever thought.
-I applaud everyone on this site for sharing their prospective regarding Tool or anything for that matter. Because as most have discovered Communication is everything.

'Cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion between supposed lovers/brothers'

clown137
11-10-2003, 10:34 PM
God. i could write about this topic forever, but im tired so ill make it quick. K. Maynard said one of the purposes he used drugs is to try and reach that level of couciousness (pardon my spelling) and state of euphoria while being sober. meaning he hardly ever does them for that reason. Now, personally i think everyone should keep and open mind about everything. I belive that everything and every experiance we have in this universe and exsitance we have is just an energy, whether the topic is positive or nagitive that depends on how U use the experiance. nothing in this state we are in is real, only what we feel in our souls. Maynard also said to study this stuff and the effects b3 doing them to get the best out of them. I believe th drugs can only abuse u if u abuse them, an example. Timothy Leary. I think Tim did not abuse acid. Timothy Leary once said acid is only for the helthy happy positive freethinking mind or something like that. i believe this was true because of the fact of how often he would use acid and yet never die or rot his brain out. An example of abuseing drugs is ppl at my school. They use it drugs to temperarily get rid of the depression or boring lives in this dull city we live in but the first time I used drugs i knew exactly what to do with them (while in my mind). Drugs should be used to help solve your problems not temporaly take them away. Once there gon because u solved them then u dont have to worry about staying high because ur life sucks. I was once reading an article on the buddihist monks beliefs of y u should use drugs. they belive that they should be used for fun, a learning expericance, helping solve a problem and i forget the other two :p. But one things for sure, drugs should NEVER come first. that screws up ur life big time. K i already wrote to much so all i have to say is just think about what i said with an open mind

imperfection
12-10-2003, 07:20 PM
drugs are not esential to using your 3rd eye or expierenceing a outer body expierence. in my opinion they dont help. but wile you are under the influence of lsd or any other mind altering matter, your not trully having that expierence. because when you enter a comatose state from meditation or "extreme thinking" you are leaving your body but your brain is still fully capable of making rash judgements. Just a thought

philosophomore
12-12-2003, 09:50 AM
News Flash...

Your Brain Is A Drug Lab.

I have some rather extensive posts regarding the issues that you mentioned on page two of this thread if you care...

AllforUnity
12-13-2003, 12:44 AM
Those are natural drugs, though.

jcnexus
12-15-2003, 08:17 PM
Kind of a side question, but would drugs be as dangerous as they are now if you got pure marijuana or whatever is the drug of your choics? I mean, its not uncommon for dealers to put alot of other shit in there, crack, nyquil, etc. Marijuana is natural, and if you got it pure, would it still be dangerous (or less dangerous)?

AllforUnity
12-15-2003, 08:27 PM
Most drugs are just as bad pure, some are even worse. Most dealers also...distill the drug, l guess, making it not as strong of an effect.

Metamorphosis
12-21-2003, 07:35 PM
it is possible to open your third eye whilist being sober, it just means that you are a super natural at meditation. but realistically, to open your third eye you must take psychadeliks and meditate soon after. you must remember that the phrase "prying open my third eye" is meaning metamorphorically that the more open your third eye is, the more spiritually aware you are. and then the more spiritually aware you are, the higher sense of perception you have of the material world. if you are completely spiritual aware, then your eye is completely open. the "third eye" is actually the 'imaginary organ' for your spiritual - sense.

Macrame
12-22-2003, 02:37 AM
One important thing about drugs is that they are never necessary ... only fantastic!

I just know whenever I light up a bowl that "I don't have to do this ... I GET TO DO THIS!"

To each his own, right?

philosophomore
12-23-2003, 03:06 PM
Those are natural drugs, though.


Define "natural".

What I mean is, when you ingest any psychoactive, all it does is trigger (natural) neurochemical processes in your brain. These same processes can also be triggered by other means, such as meditation, near death experiences, vigorous physical activity, etc. But what is happening in your brain is the same irregardless of what caused those processes to start occurring. I am not going to say much more because I don't want to plaigarize myself. I had a LONG conversation w/Mr. Zebra on the last page about these issues, and if you read through that stuff and would like to have a discussion, I would be happy to hear your opinions. That goes for any of you. But I am not going to endlessly repeat what I have already said.

philosophomore
12-23-2003, 04:39 PM
Kind of a side question, but would drugs be as dangerous as they are now if you got pure marijuana or whatever is the drug of your choics? I mean, its not uncommon for dealers to put alot of other shit in there, crack, nyquil, etc. Marijuana is natural, and if you got it pure, would it still be dangerous (or less dangerous)?

First of all, marijuana can generally be assumed to be pure (do I need to elaborate on this?). Second, why do you say that the drug is dangerous? Is a car dangerous, in and of itself? Or does it depend on the person behind the wheel?

But I sort of agree with what you are driving at; the majority of drug-related emergency room visits result from someone ingesting a substance that was not what they believed it to be, or they got way more than they were used to. Quality and Quantity controls would minimize a lot of society's drug problems.

PRNinja23
12-24-2003, 10:08 PM
I've never met a user that has thanked the drug for what it has accomplished, or helped him to accomplish, in his own life after he's free of it's influence.

I thank drugs eternally for what I've experienced while using and abusing them. I have felt what I can only describe as feeling like an *angel*. Unfortunately I experienced a lot of pain, but many of us need to go through a lot of pain in order to change something in our lives. I have experienced this very same feeling without any drugs, but I had to be free of them for a long time. The difference is, I didn't induce the feeling when I was sober. It came when I least expected it. And it will never be repeated quite in the same way and I can accept that. Well, not completely, I still sometimes crave those angelic moments.

As far as addiction is concerned, the question is: Can you *not* smoke pot for a long period of time without obsessing over it? I couldn't. I wanted what I wanted when I wanted it.

Now. And I wanted to get higher than I got yesterday.

Trying to open your third eye with drugs is depicted in the Stinkfist video. It's like watching your third eye on TV. You can flip it on and off when you please, but it's just nothing like being there.

I'm not trying to make a case for not using drugs, just offering my experience. You CAN see and feel amazing things with drugs. I mean, there's nothing quite like seeing a can of shaving cream breathe. Be safe.

synesthesia
12-27-2003, 09:26 PM
it is possible to open your third eye whilist being sober, it just means that you are a super natural at meditation. but realistically, to open your third eye you must take psychadeliks and meditate soon after. you must remember that the phrase "prying open my third eye" is meaning metamorphorically that the more open your third eye is, the more spiritually aware you are. and then the more spiritually aware you are, the higher sense of perception you have of the material world. if you are completely spiritual aware, then your eye is completely open. the "third eye" is actually the 'imaginary organ' for your spiritual - sense.

Good Post, I agree with 100% of what you said.

My thoughts ~

Hmm... Drugs definately aren't neccesary, but will take you there. They are more of a short cut to opening your Third Eye. Any effect(s) that you experience with the drug can be experienced in a sober state, if you have that much control of the mind. Meditation will open your Third Eye, but will require experience, effort, and a strong positive mindset. To open your Third Eye with super natural meditation is a gift that i hope to attain before i pass away on this Earth. I will continue using drugs until I feel no need for them. Just my 2 cents worth...

matthias9
12-28-2003, 09:46 PM
I smoked ganja before listening to Third Eye. As for my own third eye, I could only keep it half-open. So drugs are useless, the best way is the natural way.

Macrame
12-30-2003, 06:15 PM
I smoked ganja before listening to Third Eye. As for my own third eye, I could only keep it half-open. So drugs are useless, the best way is the natural way.

I seriously doubt you've ever smoked pot before ... and if you have, you were using the wrong drug for what you were looking for.

By the way, I don't like lasagna, so Italian food is shit (sarcastic).

philosophomore
12-31-2003, 08:33 AM
By the way, I don't like lasagna, so Italian food is shit (sarcastic).


Thank you...

Ming
12-31-2003, 11:34 AM
Common sense is not so common. I think Ben Franklin said that.

"Drugs" covers anything that is taken into the body that alters it's chemical makeup in any way. If what is meant is the class known as hallucinogenic drugs, they are far from necessary to reach a heightened sense of awareness. This is not to say drug induced states can be reached with the use of drugs.

As to the should or should nots as far as drugs go, only the individual can say. I've seen many people take hallucinogens who were ill prepared who had bad experiences. Specifically if your modus operandi in general is to repress rather than resolve belief conflicts, I'd avoid hallucinogens. They will open the user's awareness to a different perspective, and for those would generally repress things, this can be very uncomfortable and even terrifying because until the drug is metabolized (which can take 12 or more hours) the metaphorical 3rd eye will remain open. For those who are actively seeking a different perspective and are willing to accept whatever fear or confusion, hallucinogens can be a useful tool.

Moderation in all things.

For anyone who is thinking of doing them for the first time I would say definitely don't do them as a party drug. If this is your only goal, just don't. The subjective effect is basically that you will be dreaming in a wakened state. You will see things that normally you'd only see while asleep. While awake this sight will overlap your normal vision. There's also mixed physical discomfort depending on the substance which ranges from soreness and nausia to anxiety. At the same time there is a heightened sense of emotion/ emotional connection and physical awareness of touch. If you suffer from anxiety disorders I'd avoid them entirely, or if you must be absolutely certain you're in a safe place in case you freak. Bad trips are generally speaking, just a person trying to run away from the "high" and feeling trapped and panicked because like was said, it's not going to go away until the drug is metabolized. I also strongly encourage all teens especially younger ones to avoid them! Their perspective will change radically over the next 5 years regardless, and to toss halluciogens into the mix can only add more confusion to an already confusing time. Not to mention, they are controlled substances and they will affect your behavior. Ignorant kids on drugs is always a bad thing.
I've seen enough kids in the children's psych ward because (adults who can't deal will be put into the adult ward) of the fallout left behind after taking these drugs - to safely say this. No, the drugs don't trash your mind, but rather they act as a catylist and can greatly alter one's core beliefs. This can make a seemingly well adjusted person seem quite insane.

The bottom line. Don't play with fire if you aren't prepared to be burned a little.

The Grudge
01-01-2004, 09:06 AM
Drugs are not necessary to open your "third eye", it is however a good help. Especially during astral projection, or an "out of body experience", but i prefer experiencing it without the help of drugs.

Metamorphosis
01-02-2004, 05:18 AM
i smoked pot before listening to salival (incidentally listening to Third Eye) and with the music and the lyrics, tool aided me in opening my third eye to a whole new degree, perhaps for a while it was fully open. it was the most intense meditation i have ever had... and my conciousness was definitely within a different world (the spiritual world) i was completely unaware of the physical world. i felt like i was undergoing a metamorphosis, of course, when you are opening your third eye you can imagine the experience in your own unique way, but for everyone the outcome is the same. and, truthfully speaking, i could feel myself being one with the spiritual universe, i felt like i was a cacoon of pure energy, but at the same time, i felt like i was absolutely exposed to an ocean around me, and (as a result of listening to Third Eye) i could feel my third eye in my forehead and i could feel and visualise the colourful energies moving in and out and vibrating within my third eye, it coincidentally vibrated with the music... it was the most awesome experience ever... this all happened in the middle of a conversation...

just thought i would share my own experience of opening my third eye, i did this while stoned, i didnt require acid or mushrooms. this was not the first time i opened my third eye, but instead, the one time that it was most intense. i now meditate everytime i smoke pot, by the way, i can meditate while speaking in a conversation, and my meditations involve intense physical and emotional feelings.

i have found a whole new power that is contained within weed, i am forever greatful for it.

LthirdSeyeD
03-04-2004, 11:27 AM
Drugs are definatley not necessary. But they do help a shitload.
All this talk about drugs being bad some drugs are definatley bad, meth, heroine, crack and cocaine. But drugs like Mescaline, DMT, LSD, Shrooms, Marijunana. Havent ever killed a single person. These are all naturally produced drugs and can't kill a human. They might harm you mentally if your not prepared but the same can be said about Nsync. The drug DMT which is probably the strongest hallucigon around is produced naturally by our body so how could it be bad for us?

crazypsycho6666
03-24-2004, 06:54 PM
no, you third eye con be open with.
A. Happiness.
b. sadness.
C, any type of emotion

chloŽ
04-25-2004, 04:58 AM
about drugs and third eye, maybe the song is about maynard figuring out how to open his eye without drugs. "I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along." some people say how they try to experience something equal to a trip without drugs, maybe that line has something to do with that?

AllforUnity
04-26-2004, 11:37 AM
Yeah l agree with that totally. l think the song is about using meditation and spirituality to open your third eye, not having to trip on acid and crap.