As we gather here today...

[3stars]

Well, this song sounds very personnal, I really like the style, the unique sound of this particualar song. I feel strong emotions from a lot of Tool songs. I can relate.

[forty-eight-and-two]

To me its about how we choose our need for compassion over our need for personal attention. Whenever i just sit back and listen to it i think about a green sort of line going in and out which to me means even though we realize that we are destroying ourselves with this need for love, we do nothing because our mind is going in and out of what it really wants... Peace, and there can never be peace within love. Unless it is the love for yourself.

I also really like the sort of eerie uncomfortable sound of the guitar that sounds like its going up and down through the strings, and the heavy beat of the drum all the way through the song. Danny Carry is a god on that drum set

EDIT: haha shit. Posted this on euolgy. I thought this was stinkfist. sorry bout that. Guess ill just copy and paste this on a new thread.

[3stars]

To me its about how we choose our need for compassion over our need for personal attention. Whenever i just sit back and listen to it i think about a green sort of line going in and out which to me means even though we realize that we are destroying ourselves with this need for love, we do nothing because our mind is going in and out of what it really wants... Peace, and there can never be peace within love. Unless it is the love for yourself.

I also really like the sort of eerie uncomfortable sound of the guitar that sounds like its going up and down through the strings, and the heavy beat of the drum all the way through the song. Danny Carry is a god on that drum set

EDIT: haha shit. Posted this on euolgy. I thought this was stinkfist. sorry bout that. Guess ill just copy and paste this on a new thread.

I was reading your post and thinking, i just don't know how these thoughts could relate to Euology, yet I was keeping an open mind because everyone interprets songs differently. Then i saw that it was a mistake, made me laugh

[3stars]

This is one of my favorite Tool songs, because of the awesome musical composure and they way Maynard sings it, but the last part about; Get off your fuck'en cross, we need the fuck'en space to nail the next fool martyr, is too harsh for me. Nailing someone to a cross is beyond my comprehension, to say the least. But, I think, Maynard was very rebellious or angry at the time he might have writen this song.

[infinitee]

It's easy to comprehend. Just pretend that their wrists are jell-o and the nails are dimes.

And rebellion's got nothing to do with it. It's the way the man feels

[SpiralOut34]

Lmao, Infinitee officially has no soul.

[3stars]

It's easy to comprehend. Just pretend that their wrists are jell-o and the nails are dimes.

And rebellion's got nothing to do with it. It's the way the man feels

I can't pretend when a living being is suffering for real.

[infinitee]

Who's suffering?

Thought =/= Action

[Inner_Eulogy]

I can't pretend when a living being is suffering for real.

It's just a song there softie

[PessimisticOptimist]

It's easy to comprehend. Just pretend that their wrists are jell-o and the nails are dimes.

And rebellion's got nothing to do with it. It's the way the man feels

It seems this particular facet of t.d.n. could benefit from the awesome powers of Captain Dictionary.

com·pre·hend [kom-pri-hend]

1. to understand the nature or meaning of; grasp with the mind; perceive:
"He did not comprehend the significance of the ambassador's remark."

2. to take in or embrace; include; comprise:
"The course will comprehend all facets of Japanese culture."

However; I am inclined to agree, to an extent, that ones stance on the morality of crucifixion is somewhat irrelevant. If you haven't already, check out Bill Hicks act, Revelations. Right in tune with this songs message... or shall I say ONE of it's messages.

[infinitee]

You're fucking stupid. The OP said

Nailing someone to a cross is beyond my comprehension

which means they don't understand how someone could be nailed to a cross. Whether they misused the word or not is not my problem. I simply tried to help them comprehend with a visualization exercise.

edit: what facet are you referring to?

[PessimisticOptimist]

Fucks sake man. Have you never picked up a book before? This thread is but one aspect, or facet, of a larger picture. I was also agreeing with one of your points in case you didn't notice. Now, if your serious (which I doubt) in saying that something as sadistic as crucifixion can be understood simply by pretending it is something else; well then I dare say your misappropriating the definition of the aforementioned word entirely.

I hope you're not confusing my love of vocabulary for some arrogant desire to be condescending. I consider myself as one of a dying breed and I'm doing my best to prolong it's extinction. Which, regretfully, I'm beginning to think is inevitable.

edit: "Do you think if Jesus comes back he is ever gonna want to see a fucking cross again? That may be why he hasn't come back yet." ~ Bill Hicks

[infinitee]

It just seemed strange that you would use the word 'facet' to describe the people in one thread.

And yes, it was a joke.

And yes, I completely agree with the extinction of words

[PessimisticOptimist]

I was not referring to you or anyone else as a facet. I'm speaking of the idea. I can see how it might seem that way though. I probably shouldn't have qouted your individual post but it wasn't my intention to single you out or anything. Like I said, I agreed with you. To an extent, that is.

edit:
To me, this is a song about our reluctance as a species to listen to wise men and women until we've made martyrs out of them. Not just in the case of Jesus, but countless others. "Come down, get off your fucking cross, we need the fucking space to nail the next fool martyr," expresses an urgency to sacrafice these people first and listen to them after they're gone. "To ascend you must die," reiterates this same idea.

[infinitee]

Fair enough.

So are we friends now?

[PessimisticOptimist]

Well I certainly don't consider us enemies. See my edit on my last post for my opinion on the song itself. I feel we've veered off course a bit.

[infinitee]

sacrafice

Sorry, I could not resist.

Your theory makes sense. More than a lot that I've seen around here

[gonzo]

sacred vice, sacrifice
lord almighty, load all marshie

james joyce is smiling somewheres

[infinitee]

me too

[PessimisticOptimist]

Sorry, I could not resist.

Your theory makes sense. More than a lot that I've seen around here

No worries. Nothing wrong with a little constructive criticism. Much better than "Your fucking stupid."

Honestly though, back when Ænima had just come out I used to think this song was about rejecting Christ and the mess of a religion based on his teachings. It wasn't until a few years later that it took on a new meaning for me. Bill Hicks (whom the album was partially dedicated to) had said something that finally made it all seem to click. (I'm posting this via PS3 due to computer problems, meaning it's a pain in the ass to look up shit while typing, but I'll try and do Bill justice.) It went something like,

"Its just a ride (life) and every once in a while there's someone who's been on the ride for a long time. So they begin to speak up and tell us not to worry, cause it's just a ride. And what do we do with these people? We kill them."

[Godcell11]

This is one of my favorite Tool songs, because of the awesome musical composure and they way Maynard sings it, but the last part about; Get off your fuck'en cross, we need the fuck'en space to nail the next fool martyr, is too harsh for me. Nailing someone to a cross is beyond my comprehension, to say the least. But, I think, Maynard was very rebellious or angry at the time he might have writen this song.

Maybe he's writing the song through reflection on a time when was very rebellious and angry. I used to tear up Bibles and shit and draw pentagrams when I was like 10. The song is very dark to me and I always feel pretty guilty after listening to it. It is catchy though and Danny is badass on the drums, and I like the duck thing. I don't think the anger is expressed towards the nature of Christ, I think it is expressed towards the idea of following a human being as your savior. Or maybe it is a manifestation of the shadow in the unconscious, and as we are exposed to it, we turn our mind to higher ideas and metamorphosis or transformation--as 46and2 kind of points to. I don't really know on this one though

[Inner_Eulogy]

It's hard to know who or what this song is specifically about because it does leave it pretty open-ended. I don't believe it's about Jesus, Bill Hicks or Hitler though. I always thought maybe more so L. Ron Hubbard but I'm not too sure that fits either.

In it's simplicity though, it's against blind faith.

[PessimisticOptimist]

It's hard to know who or what this song is specifically about because it does leave it pretty open-ended. I don't believe it's about Jesus, Bill Hicks or Hitler though. I always thought maybe more so L. Ron Hubbard but I'm not too sure that fits either.

In it's simplicity though, it's against blind faith.

Open ended? Certainly. Against blind faith? Definately. Not about an individual person? Undoubtedly. I believe we're saying the same things, just in different ways. Not that it did, but I never meant for it to sound like I think this song is about Jesus specifically. Nor was I suggesting Bill Hicks himself as the subject matter of this song. I'm using Jesus as an example (like the song) of someone who has, in Bill's words, "been on the ride a long time." Now Im well aware of the corruption within Christianity. However the religion itself was created out of human error. I think the phrase "he died for our sins," is one of the most misinterpreted statements

[PessimisticOptimist]

Open ended? Certainly. Against blind faith? Definately. Not about an individual person? Undoubtedly. I believe we're saying the same things, just in different ways. Not that it did, but I never meant for it to sound like I think this song is about Jesus specifically. Nor was I suggesting Bill Hicks himself as the subject matter of this song. I'm using Jesus as an example (like the song) of someone who has, in Bill's words, "been on the ride a long time." Now Im well aware of the corruption within Christianity. However the religion itself was created out of human error. I think the phrase "he died for our sins," is one of the most misinterpreted statements

of all time. Many modern day christians seem to think this means Jesus died so that they might continue to sin without guilt. He died because we sacrificed him. Human sacrifice is exactly what the ritual of crucifixion is about and is considered a sin. Therefore, he died for our sins.