grudge

[shakeandbake257]

It's just about a "grudge" right. and getting through and letting it go?

[hushypushy]

yep, that's it. Definitely no multiple meanings in Tool's work.

[meriter]

I think it's about passing gallstones.

[Lateralareallofus]

i don't know where you got the idea that "The Grudge" has anything to do with a grudge and letting it go. Where in the song does it say anything about that?? Thats almost as dumb as thinking it has to do with Saturn and choosing one or ten. Why don't you go listen to the lyrics before posting.

[base metal]

it's about a scary movie, right?

[Megalodony]

It's just about a "grudge" right. and getting through and letting it go?


Deep. Cold too.

[Enlightened One]

Read the book titled The Scarlet Letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne written in 1850. This book will give you a background to think of as you listen to The Grudge. It can be labled as an ispiration for the song but I really doubt that it is. Give it a try and let me know what you think.

[benjamin]

It's about the "ultimate grudge" the Freudian grudge, the grudge of male force, push, yin, opposite of pull (The Patient) yan.

The Grudge(male) - The Patient(female) ; two forces juxtopposed, an eternal new begining apart (Eon Blue Apocolypse)

[Enlightened One]

It's about the "ultimate grudge" the Freudian grudge, the grudge of male force, push, yin, opposite of pull (The Patient) yan.

The Grudge(male) - The Patient(female) ; two forces juxtopposed, an eternal new begining apart (Eon Blue Apocolypse)

I like this.

[benjamin]

Realize you are just one, not one with a zero next to it. There's no such thing as ten, give away the stone.

[Lateralareallofus]

thats really interesting benjamin. I'd like to hear more of what you have to say about the one an the ten in this song.

[benjamin]

Well that's an awfull-lot of things to say (being 15+ yrs removed from 9th grade typing class) numerology, and mythical imagery aside, I'd be putting my foot in my mouth if I posted my personal views on the meaning of this song.

It wouldn't be the first time.
The one the ten the choosing, I can't give it all up that easily. I will explain more in like 13 hours er so though

[Visceral Primate]

Well that's an awfull-lot of things to say (being 15+ yrs removed from 9th grade typing class) numerology, and mythical imagery aside, I'd be putting my foot in my mouth if I posted my personal views on the meaning of this song.

It wouldn't be the first time.
The one the ten the choosing, I can't give it all up that easily. I will explain more in like 13 hours er so though

Your 13 hours have come and gone.

If you don't want to write it all out perhaps you could just provide some links. We could educate ourselves on the topic and then discuss it with you. Some people like the instant gratification of having all the work done for them, but I'd be content to have you point in the right direction.

Cheers

[slamminsalmon]

ive always liked the idea that the grudges they speak of, are the ones we hold against ourselves.

[Visceral Primate]

ive always liked the idea that the grudges they speak of, are the ones we hold against ourselves.

I thought he may have been referring to the chakra system (wear the grudge like a crown) (Saturn comes back around) The crown chakra is Neptune, while the throat chakra draws from Saturn.

There's a certain sense to be made from dabbling in the concepts the two draw from. I had to read up on them, I'm not that familiar with the concepts. There are assuredly many people here with a much better knowledge of the subject than me.

However, since holding a grudge against yourself can dilute you perception of self to go in a positive direction you'd have to obtain some self-realization or enlightenment to break from negativity. The crown chakra is associated with like goals - spirituality and enlightenment.

Now the throat chakra could be seen as a way to overcome the obstacle of having a grudge with yourself. The themes are communication, and truthfulness. The goal of this chakra is to provide an inner clarity - the kind you would need to overcome problems you have with yourself. Also it's considered the gateway to the crown chakra. Theoretically that would suggest developing an inner harmony it would be necessary to communicate effectively your disappointments and use self realizations in order come to terms with what's wrong and recalibrate in order to accept and move forward and past whatever blockage stopped you.

I don't think there is any one correct answer, as I've mentioned on other post... Even if you don't get the CORRECT meaning behind something, correct being what the artist, supposedly, intended for you to take from it (which totally dismissed individual interpretation / something Tool as a band have always advocated and likely the sole reason they don't sparknotes the meaning to their work) If you are able to take something from an interpretation that wasn't entirely what the artist was originally writing about, wouldn't this happy accident, this serendipity be just as valid?

[slamminsalmon]

ive been informed by my friend who is into astrology. that when your saturn "returns or ascends". you are roughly 27 years old (10,000 days). at this point something critical happens in your life. he said, you either get married, get pregnant, buy a house, or die.

its been hitting home for me. being 27 , ive felt a strange urge to grow the fuck up. at the same time, having visions of my own death. ive been put into the position to buy my own property. i have a new found spiritualism. plus a few other life changing events since november 9th, that cant even be put into words, other than coincidences, and synchronicity

[Visceral Primate]

ive been informed by my friend who is into astrology. that when your saturn "returns or ascends". you are roughly 27 years old (10,000 days). at this point something critical happens in your life. he said, you either get married, get pregnant, buy a house, or die.

its been hitting home for me. being 27 , ive felt a strange urge to grow the fuck up. at the same time, having visions of my own death. ive been put into the position to buy my own property. i have a new found spiritualism. plus a few other life changing events since november 9th, that cant even be put into words, other than coincidences, and synchronicity

I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return It was something I wasn't familiar with, but a really interesting concept.

[slamminsalmon]

it came up when we were talking about the musicians that seem to die at 27. his theory, living the "rock star" life doesnt allow you to come terms with the rest of your life after saturn returns.

[Visceral Primate]

it came up when we were talking about the musicians that seem to die at 27. his theory, living the "rock star" life doesnt allow you to come terms with the rest of your life after saturn returns.


That makes sense. The rock star lifestyle has a built in self destruct.

[hushypushy]

That makes sense. The rock star lifestyle has a built in self destruct.

unless you're Maynard..!

[slamminsalmon]

i dont really see him living the rock star lifestyle, at least he kept it well hidden if he did.

[Visceral Primate]

i dont really see him living the rock star lifestyle, at least he kept it well hidden if he did.

The lifestyle doesn't seem to hard to dismiss as useless. IMO

[hushypushy]

i dont really see him living the rock star lifestyle, at least he kept it well hidden if he did.

Maynard is a master of keeping things hidden ;)

I don't think he's as extreme as, say, Ozzy, but I'm sure he's had his fair share of sex/drugs/other rock star stuff.

[Visceral Primate]

Maynard is a master of keeping things hidden ;)

I don't think he's as extreme as, say, Ozzy, but I'm sure he's had his fair share of sex/drugs/other rock star stuff.

Didn't he state that he doesn't use drugs because he'd like to try to get to the same "place" without their aid?

I'm fuzzy on those details, but I thought I read that somewhere a long time ago.

[Visceral Primate]

^hushypushy I didn't recognize you.

[hushypushy]

I'm pretty sure that A. he did drugs and B. he doesn't do them anymore, for the most part. Maybe in part due to what you just mentioned.

[TOD]

i don't know where you got the idea that "The Grudge" has anything to do with a grudge and letting it go. Where in the song does it say anything about that?? Thats almost as dumb as thinking it has to do with Saturn and choosing one or ten. Why don't you go listen to the lyrics before posting.

Man, that's harsh.

It's about the "ultimate grudge" the Freudian grudge, the grudge of male force, push, yin, opposite of pull (The Patient) yan.

The Grudge(male) - The Patient(female) ; two forces juxtopposed, an eternal new begining apart (Eon Blue Apocolypse)

Nice.

[benjamin]

Your 13 hours have come and gone.



ha ha so it has!
...man, as far as the one and ten specifically, I'd have to say, I'm not entirely sure. I do remember that when I was enthralled w/ this song years ago, it lead me to a specific numeralogical alphabet.

[benjamin]

I think the chakras are fully realized in the AE album. Lateralus is all about devine inspiration and the persuit of immortality, through kabbalah, the ten sefirot, and emanation theory, a true and definite end to duelism.

[Visceral Primate]

^I'll have some spare time, I'll read up on some of those concepts and see what I can piece together.

[benjamin]

In my own "pieceing together", I came to theorize that the concept of monotheism originated as a concept of oneness of universe, not a one-god definition that is prominent today. I beleive this oneness philosophy split into ten "lost tribes" that had origionaly planned to spread their beleif throughout the world, but ended up being "humbled" by the nature of humans in their age of decline. What has lasted though is an enlightenment movement which we can study in Alchemy, Astrology, Shaivinism, Deism, and the liberal arts ;)

[benjamin]

lol at original^^

I read in Linda Goodmans "Star Signs" that a key to imortality is meditating on the concept that each cell in our body, having been wrongfully programed by the "evils" of the world, follows a life pattern of an inward spiral. She advises that one reverse this cycle returning each life pattern to an outward spiral... "spiral out, keep going..."
;)

[benjamin]

...reality is perception, and I've come to realize there are 2 base perceptions, Male(yin) and female(yin). This is reflected in historic philosophy and metaphore, from Mark Twain "...in life there are 2 kinds of people, hammers and anvils" to the more obvious Chinese Tao.

I truely beleive that there is a "big bang" for every conception. Each of us existing in our own universe, connected by comon perception. Like, a string theory combined with the knowledge of a spherical perceivable universe (that is to say that scientist cannot see past a certain point in space, due to the speed of light anything that moves beyond a distance can never be perceived), it seems totally condusive to mental health and naturalistic harmony to beleive/realize that the entire universe is your own. Ghandi said "...you must be the change you wish to see in the world."

Modern understanding of both quantum theory and black holes has pointed me in this direction as well. With black holes smearing matter along the event horizon, it seems all matter caught in this will be around as long as the universe itself exists. Quantum theory summarily states that anything and everything can and is happening at all times untill the moment you percieve it.

[benjamin]

I think "PRY ING OP EN MY THIRD EYE!!!!" is selfexplanitory. The chakras are fully realized in AE, that's what's soo cool there's more to do after that!

[nick913]

is this a thread with some actual intellectual discussion lacking arguing?!?!?!?!?!

OH MAI GOD

lock the thread

We must preserve this moment of purity!

lol...