My thoughts on AEema

[The Pit]

This song to me, is about misanthrobia. (A hatred, disrespect, uncaring or otherwise negative attitude to the human race)

The fact that the lyrics are plainly about L.A could be very subjected. In my opinion, the lyrics are blantantly saying that what L.A represents could be some of humanities worst charateristics.

(Now just to be crystal-fucking-clear, I do not think L.A is a hellhole, nor do I or never have or will think rasict thoughts about the place, I'm just saying thoughts aloud. I would also like you too notice I say 'what L.A represents' instead of what L.A is, thus showing what a steriotype of this song conjures in my opinion.)

The whole lyrics is about the steriotypes, to me at least...

"Fuck L Ron Hubbard and
Fuck all his clones.
Fuck all those gun-toting
Hip gangster wannabes."

You could very easily think of all the fallen angels you think about and this could be a metaphor for L. Ron Hubbard. And 'gun-toting hip ganster wannabes' could be about a certain gang/group or party that you dislike. It works for the whole song really.

The whole thing works like a mixture of subjectivity and, in my opinion, cold-reading. Because cold reading, in (supposed) psychics is about saying something that sounds percific, when it actually isnt, and when you say 'smiley-glad hand with hidden agendas', well, just show me one person whos never met a person whos all smiles and glad handed but has hidden agendas. It could be talking about politicains, or just plain malnipualative people, etc.

The reasons I feel this are massivly personal, but for the sake of clarity I'll simple say that I used to live in a very negative town, and mostly everone I met there fell into a catagory of this song.

Now then, I will stress this again, I have no prejudice or negative attitude towards any area, every place on Earth has good and bad points. Any attempt to try and argue this point to me will be ignored simply cause theres nothing to defend. I'm not racist.

[The Pit]

I can't read the rest of the post, I get too hung up here. LA, nor it's inhabitants, are any particular race, therefor you can't be racist (nor rasict) against it/them. Prejudice, maybe? A preconceived opinion of someone. You can still hate someone for what they are without being racist or prejudice.

And I'll bet if you were ever to visit LA, you're opinion would quickly change.

Well really, thats part of my point. I just didnt want someone getting the wrong end of the stick. When I said all that small print,(as I guess it is) I was just clearing the air, making sure I wasnt going to offend anyone, or look stupid. But know I realise I look incredibly stupid. But the point I'm trying to make is my view on the song, I'm not going to get into a prejudice/racist/whatever debate cause thats comepletly the wrong impression I was trying to make.

I dont hate anyone from any place, just read the lyrics, I simply thought that it had a misanthrobic content, and if anything, you can only accuse me of that. But yet again, I'm only throwing a opinion out in the open, one solitary view point.

The point I was trying to make was, basicly, if you spent a certain time in a certain town(like I did) and for some reason , as a teenager or a very brooding person would, they would end up hating it.

""The reasons I feel this are massivly personal, but for the sake of clarity I'll simple say that I used to live in a very negative town, and mostly everyone I met there fell into a catagory of this song.""

So really, all I'm saying is that the picture of L.A that is conjured in this song (and I stress, can be compleltely different from the real L.A) is alot like the town I had in mind that I grew up in.

Not prejudice, not racist, not anti-L.A, but pessimism, or cynicalism. But as the last couple of lines go..."Dont just call me a pessimist..."

You could even say it for other songs, not by tool even. For example think, mabye 'Karma Police' by Radiohead. Now read the lyrics to that, you could apply that to almost anyone if you think enough about it.

Basicly, all I'm saying is that, as one individual, I applied the lyrics from one town to another. A town I lived in for almost 20 years, got to know quite a number of people and overtime was dissalutioned with it.

I'm not knocking you or your opinion (or anyone else), just defending my view point, thats all.

Lastly, I would again say that I am not a prejudice person at all. L.A is a place, like every other place on Earth that has both good points, and bad points. Mabye just this song focuses on the negative. But then again, 'Dont just call me a pessimist..

Hope that clears things up for you(and all), if not, I'll count to ten and start again. I'm happy to recive questions about this as I knew it had content that could be offensive, just bear in mind, all I'm intending to say is anyplace you can think of can be a place of dissalution and cynicalism, and I've used the lyrics to apply to my place that I feel represents dissalution and cynicalism.

If that sounds racist, or anyway discrimitive, well, I wouldnt discourage anyone from thinking whatever they want, but its just my opinion, which dosent intend to sound that way at all.

[The Pit]

Ok, that makes a lot more sense now. And I agree, mostly. But...

Some places are far more negative than others. I, too, hate the town I grew up in. (still growing up in it.) There are some places I'd much rather be. And there are some places I'd much less rather be. LA is likely one of them.

But I do think this song is making a statement on a much more general level. As in, 95% of humanity should be flushed down.

I think thats my point in about one fith of the amount of words I used. haha. So besides the rambling I'm just simply saying that 'AEnema' could be about any place you want.

[catatuna]

Here is my interpretation.

If LA actually did fall into the ocean, I'm sure Maynard would not celebrate.

BUT I think we should take seriously the fact that the song communicates a loathing of LA inspired by all the things that are wrong with it. And it's so fucked up, it would be best if it were cleansed by drowning.

[catatuna]

Don't be silly.

Yes, he would be happy when a bunch of his friends drowned. Of course! who wouldn't be, Isiriu?

How can I prove my point...hmmm. Ok, appeal to Right in Two. If he is so happy about senseless death, why is the 'monkey killing monkey' thing bad. Only insane people would be happy at random people dying.

[catatuna]

I have no idea who this Mr. Hicks is, Isiriu. But I'm sure that he doesn't consider himself a knock-down authority who can be appealed to no matter what.

Further, you are obviously incapable of reading between the lines.

He calls them silly monkeys. What do they do that is silly? they kill each other.

I think the argument here is, is Maynard a humanist? I think he is, you think he isn't (by implication, though I don't think you understand implication). APC's covers album would seem to indicate that he is.

The fact that he changed the lyrics at the end of jerk off because he was 'uncomfortable with the gun violence (see the faq) indicates that he does not approve of senseless violence.

[catatuna]

Oh, and I suppose you know what kind of a person Maynard is based on the fact that he makes reference to some guy somewhere. And this esoteric Maynard information gives you the right to say that we should think that he really wants LA to fall into the ocean, even though having this sort of a personality contradicts the rest of his lyrics.

I used examples to refute you, you use ad hominiem.

[catatuna]

lol...you're basing your interpretation on a comedian? roflmao

but seriously, have you ever heard of art? In art, an artist communicates a feeling, or an intuition using non-literal language. Sometimes they mean, literally, what they say, sometimes it is clear that they do not.

example: Jerk-off-- maynard is not literally advocating vigilante justice
Disgustipated: Marnard is literally advocating or indicating that he believes in carrot rights.
Lolita: Nabokov is not advocating pedophilia, and is not a pedophile.
Short people: Randy Newman does not actually hate short people

need I go on, you dummy...

[catatuna]

like for like...isn't that how we're doing this? You ignore my arguments, I ignore yours?

[The Pit]

I have no idea who this Mr. Hicks is, Isiriu. But I'm sure that he doesn't consider himself a knock-down authority who can be appealed to no matter what.

Further, you are obviously incapable of reading between the lines.

He calls them silly monkeys. What do they do that is silly? they kill each other.

I think the argument here is, is Maynard a humanist? I think he is, you think he isn't (by implication, though I don't think you understand implication). APC's covers album would seem to indicate that he is.

The fact that he changed the lyrics at the end of jerk off because he was 'uncomfortable with the gun violence (see the faq) indicates that he does not approve of senseless violence.


How could've you have read the FAQ and not have known who Bill Hicks is?

[catatuna]

I only read up to the Opiate section, then I skipped to Lateralus.

How could've(?) you listened to AEnema and not known that Maynard did not want everyone to literally drown?

[The Pit]

I only read up to the Opiate section, then I skipped to Lateralus.

How could've(?) you listened to AEnema and not known that Maynard did not want everyone to literally drown?

First of, I could've put my last post a little less harsh, sorry. Anyway, this interpretation is just one, I think of tools lyrics with a post-structure point of view. Its just one of many, I posted this one because its the strongest one I've thought up.

Maynard could indeed want everyone to drown, but then who'd go to see Tool live?!

That last sentance is backing up my primary thought, its about misanthrobia

[catatuna]

It sounds like this Hicks guy has a lot of ressentiment. Did you look up that word like tI told you to?

The Pit, you're obviously not an asshole like Isiruie, so I'll be nice to you. I assume you meant to say that you look at tool's lyrics from a post-STRUCTURALIST point of view. If that is what you meant, well, I'm sorry but you're not looking at it from a a post structuralist point of view.

Remember, the key to post structuralist literary criticism is that the author is dead. There is nothing beyond the text (in this case a recording) we are permitted to appeal to. The 'author' does not have have privledge of interpretation.

See Roland Barthes the Death of the Author and Derrida or Foucalt (I think it's Derrida) on What is an author. FYI, I haven't read the Derrida, I just sat thru a lecture on him.

And the word, boys, is 'misanthropy'. Someone who suffers from misanthropy is said to be misanthropic.

[The Pit]

Firstly, yeah my spelling fucking dire, eye no (he he)

And oddly though, I was told that post-stucturalism was a point of interpretation where something can mean more than one thing. God dam wikipedia.

I've realise that the subject of this song isnt really brand new. I've already mentioned 'Karma Police' by Radiohead, and what about 'Five Years' by Bowie. I suppose there isnt any significance attached to how new an idea is but I think it helps puts the idea into perspective as you see a old idea through a new approach.

[catatuna]

That's somewhat like post-modernism. You can't nail it down, but you can try. I'll try to elaborate a few points:

No 'text' has a fixed meaning. So there is no proper interpretation of a work of art--the author's intention and history etc. cannot be appealed to. What is left is not quite a text that has multiple meanings, but a text that has multiple readings. Let's try an example:

Take the Divine Comedy. One person reads it and says "The meaning of the Divine Comedy is X, and this is true for everyone, the same way that two and two is four." This is like how they teach you in High School.

A post-structuralist will look at a many different interpretations by many different individuals. Rather than seeing all these interpretations as being in competition for being the first one to get it right (in the 2+2=4 sense), they look at how an interpretation is a function (that's a key word there) of a particular perspective on life.

Just think of how different Marxist, Christian, existentialist, nihilist, platonist, Rationalist etc. analyses of AEnema would be. There are no facts, only interpretations.

By the way, if this were to go on, say, a first year philosophy paper, it would probably fall in the B range. It's postmodernist for sure, but I don't really know that much about the difference between structuralist and post-structuralist. someday...

[The Pit]

Thanks for the essay, entitled 'Do Not Trust Wikipedia'(slaps back of my palms)

Call it what you will, I've always believed that Tools lyrics are in fact just interpretations(does anyone notice the irony of that statement? -IN FACT just INTERPRENTATIONS-), and yes I wonder how many interprentations there are now from different view points. Which makes me wonder how Religous people think of Tools lyrics.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Thanks for the essay, entitled 'Do Not Trust Wikipedia'(slaps back of my palms)

Call it what you will, I've always believed that Tools lyrics are in fact just interpretations(does anyone notice the irony of that statement? -IN FACT just INTERPRENTATIONS-), and yes I wonder how many interprentations there are now from different view points. Which makes me wonder how Religous people think of Tools lyrics.

They either think he's a satanist or they think he found jesus, neither of which are correct.

[catatuna]

That's a false dilemma. Neither are correct? Wrong, all are correct from their point of view.

There is no such thing as a religious interpretation (as if there could be a definitive one). There are just religious interpretations.

[Inner_Eulogy]

That's a false dilemma. Neither are correct? Wrong, all are correct from their point of view.

There is no such thing as a religious interpretation (as if there could be a definitive one). There are just religious interpretations.

lol, riiiiight.

Nice try though...albeit sad if you actually believe that.

[The Pit]

lol, riiiiight.

Nice try though...albeit sad if you actually believe that.

Who the fuck are you too run other peoples opinions down?

You honestly expect others to respect your opinions on this forum when your leaving comments like that? No wonder ever since I joined up pretty much every other thread I go on has in you an argument.

I think your sad if thats where your coming from.

[catatuna]

Inner Eulogy is a troll. He has to be, because if people took him seriously they would realize what a profound lack of intelligence he manifests. But I don't want you to make his mistake, so here is what it is.

A true point of view of the world would be a God's eye point of view. Whether or not one believes in the existence of God (presupposing, of course that God is the sort of thing that can be not believed in) this God's eye pov is inaccessible to us mere humans.

Notice, pit, that Youloggy used a logical fallacy to try to 'prove' me wrong. This was necessarily inevitable, since scepticism is basically unstoppable once it starts.

[The Pit]

Reading your last post, do you think that perhaps Maynard is singing from the perspective of such a God? Could be the same on any number of Tools songs. Most likely 'Right In Two'

I remember Barney from Napalm Death saying once in an interview that talking too someone easily proves better than fighting because they usually make themselves look at fault without you doing anything. Scepticalism is wall refered too in 'Cold and Ugly' in Inner_Eulogy.

[catatuna]

Reading your last post, do you think that perhaps Maynard is singing from the perspective of such a God? Could be the same on any number of Tools songs. Most likely 'Right In Two'


Even if he was (which I doubt) it would still be Maynards perspective of what he thinks a God's eye view would consist of.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Inner Eulogy is a troll. He has to be, because if people took him seriously they would realize what a profound lack of intelligence he manifests. But I don't want you to make his mistake, so here is what it is.

A true point of view of the world would be a God's eye point of view. Whether or not one believes in the existence of God (presupposing, of course that God is the sort of thing that can be not believed in) this God's eye pov is inaccessible to us mere humans.

Notice, pit, that Youloggy used a logical fallacy to try to 'prove' me wrong. This was necessarily inevitable, since scepticism is basically unstoppable once it starts.

If anyone's a fuckin troll, it's you two.

I completely disagree with what he said about how every opinion is "correct", that's bullshit and fucking ridiculous. If anybody here lacks the intelligence it's you fuckers that were taught that there is no right or wrong answer. If I said 2+2=4 and you sat there and tried to argue that it was actually 13 well yeah, sure that's your opinion but it's fucking WRONG.

It's true everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some are just flat out wrong and that's when I call it out and I call it like it is....cry about it all you want. I can make a valid and intelligent conversation on here just as much as I can call you out for something stupid. I may argue with you on one point in a thread yet commend you for a great thought in another. That's just how I am, now here's your tampon.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Inner Eulogy is a troll. He has to be, because if people took him seriously they would realize what a profound lack of intelligence he manifests. But I don't want you to make his mistake, so here is what it is.

A true point of view of the world would be a God's eye point of view. Whether or not one believes in the existence of God (presupposing, of course that God is the sort of thing that can be not believed in) this God's eye pov is inaccessible to us mere humans.

Notice, pit, that Youloggy used a logical fallacy to try to 'prove' me wrong. This was necessarily inevitable, since scepticism is basically unstoppable once it starts.

lol, just so you know, genius, it's spelled skepticism.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Reading your last post, do you think that perhaps Maynard is singing from the perspective of such a God? Could be the same on any number of Tools songs. Most likely 'Right In Two'

I remember Barney from Napalm Death saying once in an interview that talking too someone easily proves better than fighting because they usually make themselves look at fault without you doing anything. Scepticalism is wall refered too in 'Cold and Ugly' in Inner_Eulogy.

Again, you too genius...it's SKEPTICISM.

Anyways, you could be right about Maynard's supposed perspective in some of these songs. I think we could all agree that in many songs he's speaking in 3rd person or about someone else and not himself as the narrator.

Right In Two seems more like a 3rd person point of view of the angels to me.

[catatuna]

This is too good to be true, rammar nazi. Look at a dictionary. Both spellings of scepticism are correct. It looks like this board thinks the c version is wrong, whereas my copy of ms word thinks vice versa.

I never said every opinion is correct. Look carefully, if you can.

[catatuna]

try not to be too offended. I'm a good troll and your a better victim. easy to lead on u r

[Inner_Eulogy]

This is too good to be true, rammar nazi. Look at a dictionary. Both spellings of scepticism are correct. It looks like this board thinks the c version is wrong, whereas my copy of ms word thinks vice versa.

I never said every opinion is correct. Look carefully, if you can.

Hmm, I'm not going to bother looking it up but I'll take your word for it.

Fair enough

[Inner_Eulogy]

try not to be too offended. I'm a good troll and your a better victim. easy to lead on u r

Not really, some people just don't understand where I'm coming from and they get offended. It's why I picked the yin yang for my avi, I'm on both sides of the coin my friend. Just because I call you out for something doesn't mean I don't like you or that I won't totally side with you on something else. I don't think I'm god or anything not do I have a complex...just a strong opinion about things and there are certain things that are fact and others that are just entirely far-fetched. I love to hear great ideas/theories that aren't my own, I don't argue something simply because it's different from my own. I just bust balls when I find it entirely retarded.

Hope that clears it up...maybe, I guess....love me or hate me....I'm a pretty decent intelligent guy once you know me.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Is Irisu seeing the light of my logic?

[catatuna]

No, he was just biased against me (and therefore the light of reason) since the beginning. You should know this, since he was dunderheaded enough to agree with you.

[catatuna]

I take it you are unfamiliar with psychology outside of urban legends. The right brain/left brain thing is a myth. My friend Tony will back that up if he has to.

"No I'm not. It's purely coincidental that everything that comes out of your mouth, I disagree with."

I'd say the same, but I wouldn't want to disagree with my own cock...

[{Lateralus}]

I have no idea who this Mr. Hicks is, Isiriu. But I'm sure that he doesn't consider himself a knock-down authority who can be appealed to no matter what.

Further, you are obviously incapable of reading between the lines.

He calls them silly monkeys. What do they do that is silly? they kill each other.

I think the argument here is, is Maynard a humanist? I think he is, you think he isn't (by implication, though I don't think you understand implication). APC's covers album would seem to indicate that he is.

The fact that he changed the lyrics at the end of jerk off because he was 'uncomfortable with the gun violence (see the faq) indicates that he does not approve of senseless violence.

If you don't know who Bill Hicks is, how big a part he played in Maynard's life and how the Aenima album was DEDICATED to him, you can't even begin to understand the song.

[Inner_Eulogy]

If you don't know who Bill Hicks is, how big a part he played in Maynard's life and how the Aenima album was DEDICATED to him, you can't even begin to understand the song.

Bill Hicks is Maynards exboyfriend, you didn't know?

[{Lateralus}]

Bill Hicks is Maynards exboyfriend, you didn't know?

Nice, thats hot, thats hot.

[Inner_Eulogy]

*takes a bow*

[Inner_Eulogy]

80% of Bill Hicks acts were about porn or chicks or how much he hated hairy bobbing man ass. Definitely not gay. If you were to have said Maynard had a crush on him, maybe.

Apparently you have no sense for detecting sarcasm

[Inner_Eulogy]

I just wanted to make it clear for everyone else. A lot of people think Maynard is gay, and a lot of people don't know Bill Hicks, so I just wanted to ensure there was no confusion.

lol, really? I've never heard anyone say they thought he was gay.

If that were the case, I'd just nod my head and go along with it and let them sit on the stupid bench right next to the ones that think they worship the devil and are necrophiliacs.

[{Lateralus}]

Well, he does sing a lot about anal sex...

Maybe he wants us to think he's gay...

[Inner_Eulogy]

Well, he does sing a lot about anal sex...

lol, well of course he does

[The Pit]

Ummmm......I post a thread about my opinions on a song and it turns into a discution(guess what, I spelt that from a dictionary of ME) about wether Mayanrd James Keenan is gay, to quote Rossetta Stoned 'FUCKING TYPICAL!'

Inner Eulogy, sorry for mouthing off,

I'm off to grammar school...

[Inner_Eulogy]

*shrug*

[Sinlor]

It is actually very simple what Tool means in this song. It's about what's to come (or a vision of what's to come). Maynard takes the position of not being a judge but rather welcomes the coming changes. How can they be bad/evil/wrong if they occure natrually? It's all cyclical and will happen again.

Either the sleeping sheep can wake up to the smell of the kitchen or suffer the consequences. Turn off their TV's and start studying and understanding what is really important in life. Many do and fail when they get stuck in conspiracy and 911 and so forth. Even though it's all true it's still a wast of time. Acknowlegde the fact that shit happens, we are not in control and the Government is not here for us. We have to get past all that.

We have to realize that we are conscience having an experience and that we are eternal. Our body will die. So the task here is to EXPERIENCE and learn the principles and rules of the universe. Learn how to activate your Third Eye, experience your self and your spirit.

So, what is Tool saying in Ænima? A change IS on it's way (just look around for your self). Poles will shift, tidel waves will come and consume large land masses - learn to swim!

But, it's not all bad. There is beauty too - for those who survive. And hopefully human kind can evolve into the next level of consciousness and perhaps an enhanced genetic make up.

Advice: Study Sacred Geometry and how to activate your own Merkabah!