Communcation, Love and Confidence

[Master_Of_Nothing]

So i think the general consensus of this song is that its about how communication is the biggest element in a sustained relationship.

I have two questions about this

1) Is confidence also equally as important in sustained relationships? I mean, as much as you love the other person, without confidence around the person, you won't come off as an attractive personality

2) Does the average person listen to the song and say 'Love song', or do they say, i dunno, 'More depressing Tool music, dunno why you listen to this stuff'?

Just clearing out my mind. Answers?

[Inner_Eulogy]

I thought it was more about the break down of communication between any persons or group of people and learning how to "rediscover" a better way to communicate. You could view this song on any level really, between bandmates (as they've stated the song was about themselves), supposed lovers/brothers (nudge nudge), friends, countries, etc. It's all about the fact that we ALL have the ability to better communicate and "piece it back together", especially when you "know the pieces fit".

Sorry for all the lyric inserts but it makes perfect sense to tie it in for reference here.

[lotus.]

I thought it was more about the break down of communication between any persons or group of people and learning how to "rediscover" a better way to communicate. You could view this song on any level really, between bandmates (as they've stated the song was about themselves), supposed lovers/brothers (nudge nudge), friends, countries, etc. It's all about the fact that we ALL have the ability to better communicate and "piece it back together", especially when you "know the pieces fit".

Sorry for all the lyric inserts but it makes perfect sense to tie it in for reference here.

I'm with you on this Inner_Eulogy.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

breakdown of communication, yes. 'rediscover' a better way? I dunno where you're picking that up from.

I regard it as a love song, my opinion i guess.
Any answers for the questions Inner? Lotus?

[gonzo]

#1 is confidence equally important as what? love and trust and ability to communicate within a relationship? cerebrally it is built like a pyramid. you fall in love and gain some trust and totally enjoy this new communication with someone who sees and feels about the world like you do, then sure your confidence grows in proportion within the structure. and then confidence becomes the litmus test on how the relationship continues to grow.

so yes it is important, but as an added bonus from the relationship. this is considering that said person had confidence going into a union. (i suppose they did or they would not have gotten a date).

#2 i agree with Inner, Lotus, and McRoggles here. breakdown and rebuild.

but most none-discerning music listeners hear this song and think exactly what you said; dark, gloomy, moody heavy metal music. they don't really hear it.

[crincled]

ANSWER to question #2: most people see it as not a love song but "another deppressing tool song"

[Yast3r]

ANSWER to question #2: most people see it as not a love song but "another deppressing tool song"

Johnny Deppressing?

[Inner_Eulogy]

breakdown of communication, yes. 'rediscover' a better way? I dunno where you're picking that up from.

I regard it as a love song, my opinion i guess.
Any answers for the questions Inner? Lotus?

It's not a love song but you could definitely use it in perspective of the communication between a lover, which is basically what I already just said. And yes, "rediscover" a better way, I really don't understand how you don't get what that means but I'll try to reiterate. Haven't you ever had an argument with someone you cared about because of maybe something they said, or perhaps took the wrong way? Sometimes with two people that tends to become a habit if they're on two different wavelengths all the time. So what the song is saying is that you need to learn a better way to communicate with each other so they can get past the misunderstandings or miscommunications and they can get to the core of things and heal the relationship. It takes an effort on both parts and compromise. This can be thought of in any universal way as I was saying beforehand.

Hope that helps.


Definitely not a love song though ;-)

[Inner_Eulogy]

Inner is pretty spot on. I don't think it is a love song as love in a relationship, but maybe more love for everyone else to say. And within all relationships, also no-love involved, communication is the most important part.

I have no idea what the average listener would say, though I do know lot of people are pushed away by the structure, rythm and melody of Schism.

Communication is an important message throughout the whole Lateralus album.

Agreed, communication is so much more important than people realize. Honestly, I think it's one of the most important things one could ever learn.

[Inner_Eulogy]

#1 is confidence equally important as what? love and trust and ability to communicate within a relationship? cerebrally it is built like a pyramid. you fall in love and gain some trust and totally enjoy this new communication with someone who sees and feels about the world like you do, then sure your confidence grows in proportion within the structure. and then confidence becomes the litmus test on how the relationship continues to grow.

so yes it is important, but as an added bonus from the relationship. this is considering that said person had confidence going into a union. (i suppose they did or they would not have gotten a date).

#2 i agree with Inner, Lotus, and McRoggles here. breakdown and rebuild.

but most none-discerning music listeners hear this song and think exactly what you said; dark, gloomy, moody heavy metal music. they don't really hear it.

That's odd, I never once thought it was dark or gloomy. It's all about the hope of making things better.

[gonzo]

That's odd, I never once thought it was dark or gloomy. It's all about the hope of making things better.

i had it on last weekend, Lateralus, and there was a group of us just hanging round drinking and smoking. i'd put it on to get their reactions. i myself find Tool uplifting but i wanted to hear their reactions. of the ten of us, most had the knee-jerk reaction that the music was dark and gloomy.
i said something like, "STFU and listen to it."

the only person to see it like me was a musician friend of mine. the rest of em, well to each their own. i totally agree w/ you; i find Tool's music hopeful.

[Inner_Eulogy]

i had it on last weekend, Lateralus, and there was a group of us just hanging round drinking and smoking. i'd put it on to get their reactions. i myself find Tool uplifting but i wanted to hear their reactions. of the ten of us, most had the knee-jerk reaction that the music was dark and gloomy.
i said something like, "STFU and listen to it."

the only person to see it like me was a musician friend of mine. the rest of em, well to each their own. i totally agree w/ you; i find Tool's music hopeful.

Well, it's also not easy to tell off the first listen or without listening and knowing the lyrics. They probably weren't even paying much attention to it or didn't care anyways. At least that would be my impression.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

So you guys are saying, if I were to do a concert for say, a school ball, Schism should not be on my list?

[Rolo]

I thought it was more about the break down of communication between any persons or group of people and learning how to "rediscover" a better way to communicate.

i said something like, "STFU and listen to it."

Haha, nice combo.

[gonzo]

Well, it's also not easy to tell off the first listen or without listening and knowing the lyrics. They probably weren't even paying much attention to it or didn't care anyways. At least that would be my impression.

that is exactly it. they only paid enough attention to it to know that something was disrupting the airwaves besides the conversation. like an invisible mosquito. you could tell by their countenances they were slightly annoyed.

now if someone says they like it and would like to hear more then i'll give them a copy for an intent solitary listen. people need to draw themselves towards whatever.

[gonzo]

So you guys are saying, if I were to do a concert for say, a school ball, Schism should not be on my list?

wait, no. i think schism should substitute for stairway to heaven. definitely.

[gonzo]

Haha, nice combo.

that's some nice paste-work. represents the schism perfectly. lol

[gonzo]

also, i was thinking that communication, as mediated by language between ourselves and others, is a paradox because any relationship is complicated by the impossibility of ever being truly able to say exactly what we really mean opposed to trying to do so with absolute necessity anyhow.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

wait, no. i think schism should substitute for stairway to heaven. definitely.

I hate to say it, but that song, along with Bohemian Rasphody, are shit. for me at least. definitely way over hyped.

Regardless, I can't play stairway to heaven to anywhere near performance standard, whereas Schism i can bust out in my sleep.

[gonzo]

i think i could dance slow w/ my girl to this song, fer sure. slowly gaining the confidence to try it again later (post dance) horizontally. that's the hope>8-)

[Master_Of_Nothing]

i think i could dance slow w/ my girl to this song, fer sure. slowly gaining the confidence to try it again later (post dance) horizontally. that's the hope>8-)

Careful with horizontal mate, esp if you're small/ afraid of heights, depending on who's on top ;)

[gonzo]

always. but getting back to the top re: schism. last night i was thinking about honesty w/ regard to communication. if i can trust the person i am talking to (because their actions mirror their words) then i've always felt more confidence...then w/ the others (those who lie, cheat, and steal).

[Inner_Eulogy]

always. but getting back to the top re: schism. last night i was thinking about honesty w/ regard to communication. if i can trust the person i am talking to (because their actions mirror their words) then i've always felt more confidence...then w/ the others (those who lie, cheat, and steal).

That's kind of a given right there.

[gonzo]

yes. but so then dishonest communication causes a chasm, a schism. and being honest builds confidence, hope.

there, i can live w/ that.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

.

It's about trust, you gotta be able to trust your partner. Thats why relationships that break up when your girl sees you talking to another girl are usually not worth pursuing. Cos thats just possessive/jealous.

[Inner_Eulogy]

yes. but so then dishonest communication causes a chasm, a schism. and being honest builds confidence, hope.

there, i can live w/ that.

Some people thrive on the chaos within a relationship.

Nonetheless, my point was that your point was alluding to the obvious. My 5yr old son knows that lying breaks trust and honesty builds it. Wasn't much of a point in making that point, get the point? =-)

[gonzo]

Some people thrive on the chaos within a relationship.

Nonetheless, my point was that your point was alluding to the obvious. My 5yr old son knows that lying breaks trust and honesty builds it. Wasn't much of a point in making that point, get the point? =-)

oh yes. it was a simplistic point i was hammering out there, totally. and yet there was still something i wanted to work out.

Which is this: if when we communicate w/ others (let's say fairly honestly, at least in our opinion) and yet we are only getting 1/10 of our message across at any given point (because when we do talk we leave a lot of stuff out through self-editing) that we begin to feel over time that what we have discussed is being totally taken the wrong way or misrepresented out of context, or whatever, then we begin to question the communication retrospectively and can get lost in self-analysis. eg. 'I thought I was being honest w/ them, and yet I don't think they were really listening to me?' Being honest can cause doubts.

Conversely, Think of how many times in a day we would mold the truth (white lie) so as not to hurt somebody's feelings, or to just keep the conversation rolling along. Lying can ease the pain of trying to speak a perfectly formed thesis every time we talk(ed).

On the surface, communication seems to have a set formula for success that even a 5yr old can understand, and yet under the surface (like an iceburg) a whole bunch of mechanisms, responses, and rationalizations occur that are far more intricate and subtle and difficult to interpret.

Even simple communication is very tricky.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Uhmm..........ok

[gonzo]

Uhmm..........ok

yea, i should of quit while i was ahead. (taking into account i was ever really close to begin with).

sometimes the less said the better, and i'll let this go before it's over-analyzed (from my side of things) and i lose all confidence :)

[Inner_Eulogy]

yea, i should of quit while i was ahead. (taking into account i was ever really close to begin with).

sometimes the less said the better, and i'll let this go before it's over-analyzed (from my side of things) and i lose all confidence :)

Haha, yeah...that's better

[gonzo]

regarding communcation and schisms...

i found this quote from Einstein that i should have adhered to:

" If A is success, I should say the formula is A=X+Y+Z, X being work and Y being play... and what is Z? Keeping your (my) mouth shut."

we'll see how i do?

[The Pit]

Alot of tools lyrics can sometimes can be percieved to be very Biblical, as in New Testament. Schism, The Gudge, Right In Two,.

Wasnt it Ghandi who said 'I like very much your Jesus Christ, but not your christianity' I feel that mabey the lyrics promote ideas such as peace, love understanding, but without the Chrsitianity.

Theres plenty of people in the world who dont belive The Bible but follow a similar template of love and understanding (to a point instead of unconditionaly as Chrsitianity preaches) and perhaps the lyrics are about love, communication and confidence replacing The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Just a random thought though.

[The Pit]

It's closer to: "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians."(someone has it as their sig)

I went to a Christian church and religion class until I was like 14, never once was I preached "unconditional love and understanding". Jesus might have been attempting to preach it but they sure didn't capitalize on that one.

Speaking purely just as me, and I repect everyones viewpoint, y'know, belive in what you want and all that but this is my problem with Christianity, because I went to a christian school where we all had it rammed down our throats, (result? Not one student believed in it by choice) Its a mass of contradictions, I was preached about 'unconditional love and understanding' from a too young age, literally everything in the Bible we were told to be, and usually it met contradicting another teacher or preacher the next week.

This ties in with my idea that the lyrics are, well, not preaching, but expressing an idea of love and understanding without all the (in my opinion) hypocriticalness of a religion that is telling good ideas but its ideas are for some reason twisted or corrupted. Perhaps?

[The Pit]

I was kinda saying the same thing. Difference with me being, they left out any of the stuff that actually meant anything. I honestly can't recall one time ever being told anything about "unconditional love and understanding" or anything similar, except maybe talking about how Jesus was.

Funny thing, if we were both followers of Jesus and we were having this conversation, would we not argue and then perhaps create a schism? Isnt this how Protestants started? hhhmmmmmmm?

[Michał]

I'm also a follower, as you called it, and I think there's no need for making any more schisms (real, not schism-alike songs :)). AFAIK the schisms were caused by material things, disagreements concerning dogmas etc., but they never tried to attack the base rule of christianity: loving God, our brothers and ourselves. I know it might sound naive, but down to the core there's nothing to divide, this one basic rule is so pure and self-explaining that all the Christians and even many people who don't follow agree with it. I think that's why Gandhi said that before-mentioned quote. If we were perfect, we could derive all the smaller rules from that one. We are not and we divide (right in two), we make schisms.. If we try hard to follow this rule of love the schisms will be unnecessary.

As a bonus I must say I absolutely love the drum part in Schism. Before and after I remembered every single drum/cymbal hit, each time I listened I was consequently amazed and impressed with the beauty of complexity and subtlety. Danny's work is truly priceless. I could say Danny helped me to decide to take drum lessons, I cannot play whole Schism even near to the original for the moment :)

With respect to reactions for the song: My parents never understood the lyrics, they don't understand the language enough. That was why they disliked it! One time I have translated it carefully into Polish, as well as I could. After reading they've stated the lyrics are great, and truly appreciated Tool since then (they don't listen, because they don't really like heavier music, but at least they appreciate).

[Earl Talus]

I don't interpret this song as a love song, I interpret it as a song about communication in general and the way people don't communicate as well as they used to thanks to electronic medians of communication such as MSN, mobile phones, etc. I've also interpreted this song's purpose as a message to everyone to go and "rediscover communication", like talking face to face as much as possible instead of hiding behind a computer.

And as an answer to your second question, I think most people would refer to this song as "more depressing Tool music".