Not a whole song.

[Edman]

I don't consider this one piece. Such tiny threads hold it all together (Bouncing ball noice, Triad coming in from the distance with the hummm). I don't know how Tool could have concieved this whole song as one when it clearly is not. You could take T&L, Lateralus, and Diposition and make them the a whole piece by simply attaching a noice that threads it all together.

[AllforUnity]

Yes...but Ticks and Leeches is not connect with Lateralus...if you break the three songs down through threads, they're almost connected as one...obviously TOOL didn't WANT this to be one WHOLE song, because it would be far too long...but that doesn't mean it wasn't in thought.

[Zeromus]

I think that if this three song where only one, it would change all the feeling that the album tries to give you. Because Diposition/Reflction have a meaning but Triad is somthing diferent. its the beginning of the End. It would have no sense if the three of them were just one song.
And i dont think that they cut them because of the lenght, bcause this is clearly a non-comercial album. I think they cut them because this way they represent more clearly the feeling of the album.

[Zeromus]

Ho and sorry about the way i write. its because i live in South america and i dont spek english too well

[AllforUnity]

Yeah, l agree, l only see Triad being connected as more of an instrumental thing, rather than something that's connected with meaning behind lyrics. But who knows, perhaps we're all wrong.

[neochrist]

i dont think there meant as one song either

[AllforUnity]

l think they may have been thought to be...but just too long of a track.

[Zeromus]

No, i dont think that the lenght was the problem....

"Zeromus is not here anymore...But he will come back!"

[paraflux]

First of all, there is the interview that says the guys did originally have it all together at first, then broke it down after the music began taking 3 different shapes. Second, there is the schematics on the back of the cd cover (the plastic sleeve) where the three are connected, unlike the rest of the track listings. Third, if you listen to them hard, you can draw connections between them and consider them both three songs and one opus.

[Odibilëph]

They are a symphony with three movements. There are three separate pieces, but they are all closely connected (more so than all just being on the same album).

[ry.]

you have to think that if they were one track, the transitions would probably be alot different.

for instance, the basic rythm danny plays in reflection is the same as the faint bongo part at the end of disposition,

and the end of reflection would prolly be shorter, and triad would come from behind the guitar's end to reflection,

if you have winamp, let winamp cross fade reflection and triad, it sounds more like one track

[Edman]

First of all, there is the interview that says the guys did originally have it all together at first, then broke it down after the music began taking 3 different shapes. Second, there is the schematics on the back of the cd cover (the plastic sleeve) where the three are connected, unlike the rest of the track listings. Third, if you listen to them hard, you can draw connections between them and consider them both three songs and one opus.

That I already knew, but my stance on it still....stands!

[aintsofar]

> Such tiny threads hold it all together

One such tiny thread:
D:-2-----4-------4-5-4--------------
this theme appears in the beginning of disposition, and continues through much of it.

G:-9-----11-------11-12-11--------------
this reappears at the crowning (forgive my diction, haha, puns enter my sentences without even informing me first) moment of the guitar solo. For those who don't play guitar, they're octaves of each other, so the same notes but at a different pitch, or the same concepts manifested on different planes.

Another tiny thread:
the first rhythm of disposition starts with a root of E, and interpolates between moving to a root of D (tool's home ground, it would seem) and to a root of B. as the track wanes, the bass gets "stuck", you could say, on the B-root. reflection enters in B. To me, makes it seem like a 90-degree turn.

my rebuttal:
what would be the point of having three things if they were all the same?

[AllforUnity]

lnteresting...

[whale I]

But what about the Pink Flyd song Echoes??? it goes for 23 minute and it has a few spots where it has almost nothing happening, similar to the transitions between the 3 songs here

[whale I]

by the way, i get on highs imagining that as a whole song.

<a true high is when the unconscious comes out. I always seem to have highs about songs that just pop up in my head and i never get it written down cos i want to experience the high>

[Machiavelli70]

True, all you have to do to add to tie songs together are some sounds . . . but what's important is that Tool did that. Sure, you COULD tie Ticks and Lateralus together like that, but they DIDN'T. And they DID tie those three together as a unit. They are songs in their own right, but the three make up the whole piece and idea.

[reign3]

They really don't seem like one song at all. They do have some obvious similarities, but nothing thick enough to hold the whole thing together. I just think of them as three different songs that flow into eachother.

Odibilëph made a good point with that symphony comment.

[Machiavelli70]

Not as much whether the songs SHOULD be together, but the fact that they are. I draw a parallel to King Crimson's three primary color albums: Beat, Discipline, Three of a Perfect Pair.

[Skinshifter01]

Yes, while the connections between the songs are faint, there is a connection. They are a trilogy. Saying that these songs are not connected, are not one, is like saying the Lord of the Rings books weren't written as one and then split into three later because the one would be too damnably long.

Oh, and Danny Carey himself says that they wrote the songs as one and then split them into three when they mixed the album because the song would be too long.

Imagine with me, if you will, this one song, some twenty minutes long. Let's say that you only want to listen to what now is called Reflection. You would have to fast forward through all of what is now know as Dispostion to hear it, that's some 10 minutes of song. That would be a pain in the ass. Think about it. What Tool did by splitting this song into three was a greatly good thing...a greatly conveniencing thing...

[MentalSanityOff]

i believe that it was created as one full length song without breaks, but when recording time came around, tool decided to split it up into 3 different, but sequential songs

[FRANK THE TANK]

Yeah, l agree, l only see Triad being connected as more of an instrumental thing, rather than something that's connected with meaning behind lyrics. But who knows, perhaps we're all wrong.

You're forgetting one major thing.....they chose the name "TOOL" because they saw their instruments as a way of expressing themselves....TRIAD is an instrumental song and although there are no lyrics that doesn't mean that there is no meaning behind it.....in this case i think that the instruments are "speaking" if you get what i mean......or i just could be wrong....which is a possiblity that i am not afraid to face....PEACE

[paraflux]

Frank, you are drawing conclusions out of your ass. I'm happy that the name "Tool" means something to you, but you cant possibly say that you know why they chose that name.

And of course the instruments are speaking in Triad. They are always speaking.

[FRANK THE TANK]

Frank, you are drawing conclusions out of your ass. I'm happy that the name "Tool" means something to you, but you cant possibly say that you know why they chose that name.

And of course the instruments are speaking in Triad. They are always speaking.



Woa...dude chill...but you're right i cant say i know that for sure so let me refphrase that...."I THINK .... etc. " but tell me wut you think about dis/ref/.triad? Do u think its a whole song or three seperate songs? and i dont mean on the cd cause of course on the cd they "are" 3 seperate songs.

[FRANK THE TANK]

BTW paraflux.....why did u name urself that? is there any specific reason?

[paraflux]

No, on the cd they are not 3 separate songs. Look at the back of the clear case with all the schematics. The band decided to link these 3 in a way that none others on the record are linked. Look at it and see if you can tell what I am talking about.

paraflux - the process by which 2 seemingly opposing forces rise up and realize they are but doing a dance, performing different aspects of the same thing. Union is acheived.

[FRANK THE TANK]

No, on the cd they are not 3 separate songs. Look at the back of the clear case with all the schematics. The band decided to link these 3 in a way that none others on the record are linked. Look at it and see if you can tell what I am talking about.

paraflux - the process by which 2 seemingly opposing forces rise up and realize they are but doing a dance, performing different aspects of the same thing. Union is acheived.

I would if i could but i lost the cd case.
FRANK THE TANK--in case u were wondering....a nickname given to me by my friends in an efforet to try and get me to drink with them-

[solomonarul]

Disp/Refl/Disposition/Triad = one song...whadda ya say bout that?

[MentalSanityOff]

wouldnt disp and disposition be the same song, or am i missing something

[Stalkz]

I don't see what's so hard to understand about them being movements of one song.

Look at Frances The Mute. Six SONGS, several MOVEMENTS.

[ufopancakes]

I can definetly see the connection in all three songs. I think its best the way it is. I consider them all to be one flowing piece, but chopped up to three tracks.