Singing while playing

[holy reality]

how in the living hell are you supposed to sing while playing? I just can't do it, when I try I start strumming in time with my singing...

Like.... I learned disarm today, or at least, my interpretation of it, being as I couldn't really remember how exactly it went, but anyway....

Just strumming the same chord over and over, as eighth notes, I found it impossible to sing while doing that without fucking up the rhythmn of the strumming...

Are some people just not coordinated enough to sing while playing? Or.....

Is there some way to practice this to get better? I can't really see how becuase practicing something while doing the wrong rhythmn isn't going to help you any......

I mean....... getting the song down to where I can play it brainlessly would help, but it's not a hard song at all and so I think if I had any ability to play and sing I should be able to do it....

Help anyone?

I can sing and play if what i'm playing follows what I'm singing, like nothing else matters (sort of, I might not play it exactly right though).....

[Elgyn]

Firstly, Disarm is a wicked song (if you mean the SP version)
Singing and playing. Its something I've never been able to do. I have the same problem as you - I follow the rhythm of either the vocals or guitar. It shits me to know end, because if I could sing and play, it would hugely broaden my options for song writing (and playing).

I've been told by people who used to have the same trouble as me, that its just a matter of practice. I don't actually know if anyone can just pick up a guitar and play and sing automatically. It seems like a coordination thing. Seperating the hands from the mouth.

Quite what can be done about this problem I don't know. Like you say, there doesn't seem to be much point practising if you're doing it incorrectly. If anyone has any ideas, I'd also be interested to hear them.

"so close, no matter how far..."

[pushthis]

I'm one of the lucky ones I guess. I can play and sing just about anything as long as it's not a really fucked up rhythm. I don't know what advice to offer other than to keep trying with songs that are easy like that, and do it over and over until you get it.

But if you can't do it with even the simplest songs, it may be hopeless. Some people just can't get it. BB King is one of the best guitar players ever, and he can't do it. So don't feel bad.

[spiraleyes]

i have that problem sometimes, if the vox flow with the lyrics then it's easy, other times i can just have no problem like with judith,3 libras, and ticks and leeches. but when i get to songs that harder it gets harder to play and sing. and then i also have to focus on singing as good as maynard

[Marius]

Singing while strumming chords or doing some fingerpicking (like Street Spirit by Radiohead) is easy for me, but when playing riffs and stuff I just can't do it.

[deviatedwolf625]

I used to be that way ... and I just found something easy, and I would sing until I knew the vocal parts and could sing then note perfect and word perfect while sittin at the tube ... then I could do the bass part as well ...

or vice versa, learn the bass part really well ...

I can sing part of 46 and 2 proudly ..

[holy reality]

i can't like.... even do smells like teen spirit


the little two note verse parts


the

like


------------
--------6-----
------5---

part

while singing "load up your guns"..... etc.... i can't....

though it's time strangely...

glycerine (bush)... hell no....

fade to black? umm... i think i had limited success....
nothing else matters, limited success
rape me? hell no... though... i did seem to be getting better at it, despite me not knowing how the song is actually supposed to be played.
TOOL??? you've got to be kidding me, anyone that can play a tool guitar part while singing has got to be some sort of God......

and yes I'm talking about SP's disarm, if anyone can record them playing it (guitar) I'd like a short clip to just ensure I've got the right idea going......

I need to try something where they just strum one chord over and over, like some shitty punk song, maybe I could do that.....

oh and I do have difficulty patting my head while rubbing my stomach, I have to pat at a set rhythmn that coincides with the rubbing and cannot rub spontaneously while patting

i guess there's no way i could be a good drummer lol, can't get two hands doing two different time sigs.....

[elevate]

This is something about Les Claypool that really makes him an even more extraordinary musician than his bass playing alone would seem to indicate. He sings crazy lyrics in rhythms that have absolutely nothing at all to do with the rhythms that he's playing on the bass. Then when you really think about how crazy the lyrics go and how crazy his bass playing is....how does he do it?

[Neill Fraser]

I'd like to think I'm fairly well practiced in playing guitar and singing (front a band, playing many riff based songs incl picking and your usual strum stuff). Despite this always found Disarm a little hard to play and sing due the the fast change from G to F# in the main chord progression (Em, C, G, F#). If I change the strum pattern slightly for that part its fine (all the chorus and things are easy). So if thats the bit thats giving you problems try changing the strum pattern a little to fit your singing.
Or if that fails try something else. Today by SP is a good one. Radiohead songs are also good, try High and Dry; Karma Police; Fake Plastic Trees (the high bits might stretch you though..).
Hope this helps.

- Neill

[holy reality]

ok guys this is what i sound like when i try to sing and play... and keep in mind that i'm doing WELL in this recording...

www.angelfire.com/hiphop3/hankhill/nem.mp3

(never mind my shitty voice)

so it's like... nothing else matters seems to be the only song I can even sing and play, probably because i know it better than disarm and teen spirit... or something?

anyway.... i'm posting this for your enjoyment so you can laugh at how sucky I am, so.... just don't laugh too much....

[smirk]

Dig what was said about Claypool, same goes to Geddy Lee who uses ogan type foot pedals in addition to singing and playing bass, fuckin insane.

It comes easyer to some than others and some songs are way harder than others. Hardest song I ever sang and played was Cult of Personality but I noticed that bands with lead singers were harder to cover than guitarists who sing. Like Custard Pie aint that hard on guitar but the way its sung makes it kinda fucked up to do both.
Holy you should just keep at it, take the song aprt in your head before you play it, and start by playing it slow enough to get it right.

[rockfan7]

ok guys this is what i sound like when i try to sing and play... and keep in mind that i'm doing WELL in this recording...

www.angelfire.com/hiphop3/hankhill/nem.mp3

(never mind my shitty voice)

so it's like... nothing else matters seems to be the only song I can even sing and play, probably because i know it better than disarm and teen spirit... or something?

anyway.... i'm posting this for your enjoyment so you can laugh at how sucky I am, so.... just don't laugh too much....

At the end did I hear you sing, "I can't believe this damn song" ??

Yes, I did laugh quite a bit (ESPECIALLY when you sang that line at the end.. priceless!) but I guess I shouldn't be laughing because it's a lot better than I can do.

This doesn't really have to do with this thread but you should post that link on a Metallica message board and say it's a tribute you did. See what kind of replies you get.

[holy reality]

At the end did I hear you sing, "I can't believe this damn song" ??

Yes, I did laugh quite a bit (ESPECIALLY when you sang that line at the end.. priceless!) but I guess I shouldn't be laughing because it's a lot better than I can do.

This doesn't really have to do with this thread but you should post that link on a Metallica message board and say it's a tribute you did. See what kind of replies you get.

actually I was saying "I can't play this damn song" or something like that, but yeah, it was a lighthearted approach at "singing" but umm...

I do suck at singing, especially when combined with playing.... and they'd all lynch me probably, some would find it hilarious, some would go on and on about how much I suck, etc....

they're a bunch of snobs over there when it comes to posting metallica covers, usually.... they tore my poor little enter sandman solo apart, I mean it wasn't that fantastic but it wasn't that horrible either.

oh and you guys should hear reign3 sing, he's the shiznit!!!!!

[BottomFeeder]

It's usually easier to do with a drummer helping with the rhythm, but usually if I just keep rpacticing a song until playing is just second nature than my hands take over without much thought so I can sing to it. Most Tool songs I can sing and play (on bass).

[Edman]

Just like people have said before. It all comes with practice. I had the same problem with a lot of the percussion drums I play (Congas, Djembe, etc). I couldn't keep a good beat and sing. No rolls, nothing. Just a simple beat.

Eventually, with practice, it's almost like your hands develope their own brains. Then you have three working. Eventually you forget what you are doing with your hands and they just play on their own. That comes with ALOT of practice though. It helped learning that already on drums, because when I picked up the guitar, I could play and sing with no problems.

Keep at it. It's all practice. The human brain works on recognizing patterns with everything.

[48&2]

lol, dude your voice is as bad as mine... you will only be able to sing to a song if you can play it with your eyes closed (iow know the song really well) so you dont have to think about what your playing and you can just sing to the tune, peace.

[holy reality]

lol, dude your voice is as bad as mine... you will only be able to sing to a song if you can play it with your eyes closed (iow know the song really well) so you dont have to think about what your playing and you can just sing to the tune, peace.

being able to play with my eyes closed doesn't have much to do with how well i know a song usually......

i.e. i can play nothing else matters with my eyes closed.

[deviatedwolf625]

How bout if you're sitting in front of the tube? Or talking?

[holy reality]

How bout if you're sitting in front of the tube? Or talking?

talking hell no.... tv... probably.... but i hate TV unless some good cartoons are on.

[ihatemickjagger]

i'm a bass player who can't sing worth shit, especially while just holding an instrument, but i did manage to get Go With the Flow by QOTSA down pretty well....by my standards....the chord progression is just C A E, try playing just the rhythm part. if you can play Nothing Else Matters, you could easily get this song down. try it

[imtheism]

you can practice either one, and come at it in a buncha different ways, but in reality it relates to how "one-sided" of your brain you are. Some people, while they may be very good at using one side of their brain at a time (playing or singing), can't do both at the same time. Your singing ability comes from one half your brain, and strumming from the other. Typically women are much more 'even-brained' than men. It kinda all depends on how your brain works in the end.

[Windir]

I know I don't play, and I don't know if it's said before, but I think the best you can do is just... try to "mmmmmm... mmmm" along with the thing you play...
Find the rhytm of the song first, then "mmmmm... mmmm" along (I don't know what that's called in English).
And after that try little parts seperated, to sing along.

That's my opinion.

[Ming]

Ever had a person toss two things at you at the same time and dropped both? Ever tried to juggle? Ever had problems focusing on listening to a speaker in a crowd of voices?

When a baby is born the bottoms of their feet are perfectly smooth because they've never walked. The neural pathways involved in multitasking are the same way. Eventually the brain builds algorythms for thigns which are repeated (practice makes perfect) which frees up the sensate portion of the brain for more immediate tasks. Neural bridges between alogrythms will also form with repetition of simultaneous tasks making synergetic relationships between them.

And yes, some will be more efficient in these processes than others based purely on genetics. There are so called "naturals" in all fields, but the potential for development within any one person is great enough that you should never let that get you down. As a matter of fact, one should always do everything in their power to focus on removing self limitations and self doubt.

Ever sang in the shower and it sounded so awesome it was a religious experience, and other times compared your voice to someone you were trying to emulate and thought, "god I suck," and therefore couldnt hit a note? That self-sustaining feedback loop is going on all the time. If you have a positive attitude it sustains itself by releasing the feel good chemicals and you will move forward. You will hear the pleasant tones in your voice and the brain will build on those processes. Conversely, if you hear the ugliness in your voice and are discouraged that negative emotion will sustain a chain of suppressive events to make the pain stop- ie you will sing less. Self-fulfilling prophesies of doom and gloom will squelsh your creativity quickly. This is true in all things- not just music or singing. Being able to pick out, isolate, analyze and enjoy the pleasant (vs the aversive) is a talent and will make one successful in anything.

[holy reality]

"Ever had a person toss two things at you at the same time and dropped both? Ever tried to juggle? Ever had problems focusing on listening to a speaker in a crowd of voices?"

Yes, yes, and yes. Though I really can't catch things at all...

Thanks for the post... I find multitasking quite hard, I mean I can't even listen to tv when people are talking in the room (partially because I try so hard to not listen to them) now if I dont' care what they are saying it's fine, but when they are bothering me I cannot get their conversation out of my head and cannot hear both the tv talking and theirs at the same time, usually.

So I guess I do have a lot of hemisphere domination issues.

[stu]

that's weird, disarm is the ONLY song i can sing along with.
well that's a lie, i can also sing "wading in the velvet sea" by phish while playing, but that's really easy.
the first song i learned to play all the way through was "today" by the pumpkins, and i still can't sing along with that song to save my life.
i would practice it more, but i don't want to subject my roomate to that kind of torture.

[Sandoz]

People who think singing while playing is a feat obviously have never played the piano.

I'm not saying it's easy, or that it should be, but carrying out several melodies at once is simply a matter of practice. It's not a gift, or complicated at all for that matter. Just practice enough.

[pushthis]

In a sense, it is a gift though. Some people just can't do it.

There are people who practice math problems over and over for years and are still no good at math. Same thing here. Playing two melodies at the same time is something that some brains just can't grasp.

But if you are not one of the cursed, it is indeed just a matter of practice.




(cursedpeoplearefailures)

[The_Naked_Stalk]

People who think singing while playing is a feat obviously have never played the piano.

I'm not saying it's easy, or that it should be, but carrying out several melodies at once is simply a matter of practice. It's not a gift, or complicated at all for that matter. Just practice enough.

Ditto.

But I'll add this. Warning: Long explanation.

You have to be confident enough and competent enough with the material to be able to do the music independent of itself. A good starting place is trying to split your consciousness with something simpler. If you have to focus completely on playing guitar to play the song write, you won't be able to sing and the reverse is true of singing. If you have to concentrate too much on hitting the notes and remembering the lyrics, the phrasing, etc. you won't be able to divide your brain. So I would reccomend practicing the two things you're trying independent of themselves untill you feel really good about them. Then I would reccomend trying to split your mind while doing either of the two things. It can be something simple like: while you're singing you might want to clap out the rhythm to something off from what you're trying to sing. If that's too dificult start with something simpler, maybe muting your guitar and just doing the strum pattern while singing. Or maybe while you're playing say the lyrics in rhythm instead of singing. Whatever. Just try and isolate what's throwing you off and work on that. I can't tell you what to do, but just leave with concept of splitting your mind between to things because that's the only way to be proficient at this technique.

I think that's your problem. You're trying to do too much at one time.

[Dirty Sanchez]

^^^ That's good advice.

Sometimes i have to practice a new song for about an hour or 2 before i can play it and sing at the same time. It all depends on how difficult the song is.

[holy reality]

yeah, i haven't really tried to do it at all lately

aside from rape me.. only i don't know how to play rape me the correct way..

i just strum the intro while singing the chorus.... the second part adding "my friend" is a bit tricky since it goes against what you're strumming, and every time I strum I want to sing... that's a big problem right there for me, my voice wants to follow the patterns of my right hand.

fuck i'm so out of practice though.. and somehow my top 3 strings seem a lot higher than they were before and i think i fucked the saddle's height adjustment up when i took all the strings off to clean it and it fell off.

so I'm not sure how it's supposed to be but one side is screwed higher than the other a bit.

anyway i agree that mindlessness is a big factor in singing along, which is probably why i can do nothing else matters halfassedly becuase i have it pretty much completely mermorized though i cannot grasp the timing he has it in and play it somewhat differently for some reason unless I'm playing along to the song.

[mr. id]

i've been playing for seven years. at first i could only keep up with a song, proper tempo and timing both, then one day i could. my advise is to practice. i also used to not be able to play any song without looking at the fretboard. now i can play any song that i know how to play, and sing along with it. in the dark. just practice. you don't have to be "lucky", pushthis. you don't have to. you must practice. because that's how you learned to play, right? success is granted only through EXCESSIVE repetition (unless you were born with a gibson in your hands).
by the way...i can play and sing lateralus at the same time. fuck with that.

[mr. id]

by the way...i completely agree with the_naked_stalk

[pushthis]

you don't have to be "lucky", pushthis. you don't have to. you must practice.

Yeah, you're right. You used to suck at it, and now you're great. That means you're right. Everyone can do it, they just have to practice. Please forgive my mistake. I'm sure B.B. King is just too lazy to practice. Pfft.

When I say the ability is a gift to some extent, I'm not making excuses for myself. I can do it just fine. I'm just speaking for certain people that cannot do two things at once like that. These people do exist, even if they keep practicing.




(thatisall)

[holy reality]

Yeah, you're right. You used to suck at it, and now you're great. That means you're right. Everyone can do it, they just have to practice. Please forgive my mistake. I'm sure B.B. King is just too lazy to practice. Pfft.

When I say the ability is a gift to some extent, I'm not making excuses for myself. I can do it just fine. I'm just speaking for certain people that cannot do two things at once like that. These people do exist, even if they keep practicing.




(thatisall)
agreed....

play and sing lateralus? Umm... i still don't play it with the right timing... it feels right to me yet it's apparently wrong.

..........

i figured out how to count it though, but i can't count verbally (in my head) while playing very well .....

something like 1 and, and 2 and, and 3 e and a 4 and, and 5 and, and 5 e and a 6 and, and 7 and, and 1 2 3 4

something akin to that based upon trying to hear it in my head... fuck proper time signature though, i have no clue how to figure that one out yet (though it's 987)

[deviatedwolf625]

something akin to that based upon trying to hear it in my head... fuck proper time signature though, i have no clue how to figure that one out yet (though it's 987)

Yeah, anyone here have how the time signature varies with each measure? or could notate it in a program and send it to me as a midi? Me and a couple friends are trying to do a cover of it for a school Talent show, and it'd really help

[holy reality]

Yeah, anyone here have how the time signature varies with each measure? or could notate it in a program and send it to me as a midi? Me and a couple friends are trying to do a cover of it for a school Talent show, and it'd really help
you can use this
http://www.powertabs.net/pta.php?page=song,1127

but it's in 3/4 and that's now how it is in real life.

[The_Naked_Stalk]

Yeah, you're right. You used to suck at it, and now you're great. That means you're right. Everyone can do it, they just have to practice. Please forgive my mistake. I'm sure B.B. King is just too lazy to practice. Pfft.

When I say the ability is a gift to some extent, I'm not making excuses for myself. I can do it just fine. I'm just speaking for certain people that cannot do two things at once like that. These people do exist, even if they keep practicing.




(thatisall)

I disagree. It's a matter of not practicing mistakes. Even if you take just one beat at a time and play it perfect, that's a decent start. If you go slow enough and you practice the right way and you're patient and you don't try to work with too much material or too dificult material. Anyone can do it. When you've done it enough times the right way your muscle memory kicks in. You have to work your way up to being able to sing and play a song like "Geek USA," but it's certainly not impossible. In my music skills class I have to SIGHT SING atonal music with complex rhythms using the chromatic solfege system. You work your way up. It's a process, and it takes consistent practice. AND ANYONE CAN LEARN TO DO IT. If you have a good pracicing method. Also anyone can learn to sing. There are plenty of great vocal teachers in every area that I've ever been to. And that is something that I am not familiar with. I don't sing professionally. I use singing as a tool. It's a skill to help with music. So yea. Anyways. I'm rambling.

[imtheism]

lateralus (excluding the chorus) would be easy compared to the opening of the grudge ;)

[holy reality]

"I disagree. It's a matter of not practicing mistakes. Even if you take just one beat at a time and play it perfect, that's a decent start. If you go slow enough and you practice the right way and you're patient and you don't try to work with too much material or too dificult material. Anyone can do it"

No... there are people that lack the cognitive ability to do such complex tasks. Not necessarily brain damaged folks but I mean, maybe LD people, or something.

Most people can probably learn to do it, yes, anyone, NO.

as for singing it's not so much that anyone that can talk loudly can't learn to sing, it's just that some people even applying a correct approach to singing, sound sucky... like me.

I can sort of hit notes, and if they are too high I just do like a harmony or octave or something, but my voice sounds horrible aside from maybe the monotone SOAD type sound, but a lot of people say he sucks and he tries to sing badly and things like that.

But I mean, it's not that I can't hold notes to somewhere around where they should be, it's just that the combination of my voice and accent makes me sound shitty.

That can be improved theoretically, but I'd wager to say some people just aren't meant for singing.

Oh and my voice has a mad crazy vibrato to it.. I sound like a damn country singer sometimes.

I have been "practicing" though and have gotten to a point where I no longer think I sound like absolute shit, so I might try and cover some sort of easy song that doesn't require much vocal ability and post it.

Maybe something like Synapse by Bush...

there are also times when I think I sound like Maynard.... but I might be crazy and I always have the music louder than I am.

[The_Naked_Stalk]

"I disagree. It's a matter of not practicing mistakes. Even if you take just one beat at a time and play it perfect, that's a decent start. If you go slow enough and you practice the right way and you're patient and you don't try to work with too much material or too dificult material. Anyone can do it"

No... there are people that lack the cognitive ability to do such complex tasks. Not necessarily brain damaged folks but I mean, maybe LD people, or something.

Most people can probably learn to do it, yes, anyone, NO.



Well of course. If you wanna go second grade on me.

Look you'll either take my advice for what it (which is sound advice that could really help you) or you'll reject it.

But seriously (and I'm not trying to be bitchy so just chill): Don't fucking nit-pick. It's a waste of both our time.

[holy reality]

well you kept arguing with that pushithis that ANYONE could do it so I thought I would elaborate some.

[The_Naked_Stalk]

well you kept arguing with that pushithis that ANYONE could do it so I thought I would elaborate some.

I don't see how B.B. King fits into your categories.

[pushthis]

But the fact remains that B.B. King has said on record several times that he cannot play and sing at the same time And I seriously doubt someone who has been making a living playing guitar for over 50 years is too lazy to practice it. He just can't do it, simple as that.

And there are plenty of other people with the same problem... people who don't have learning disorders.

[The_Naked_Stalk]

But the fact remains that B.B. King has said on record several times that he cannot play and sing at the same time And I seriously doubt someone who has been making a living playing guitar for over 50 years is too lazy to practice it. He just can't do it, simple as that.

And there are plenty of other people with the same problem... people who don't have learning disorders.

I don't think you've read those articles close enough. Mr. King feels that he must concentrate fully on his vocals and his blues guitar improvisation. I refuse to believe that such a talented musician can't do something as simple as sing and strum at the same time.

This isn't true. It's not something that can't be learned. Why would you think that? It makes no sense.

[pushthis]

I'm from Memphis. I have met B.B. King at his blues club. I was in a group of people that he was talking to and he mentioned something specifically about not being able to sing while he's playing. That's all the evidence I need.

If he can strum and sing at the same time then why doesn't he do it in any of his hundreds of songs?


You can refuse to believe whatever you want. I think we need to agree to disagree. This is going nowhere.