View Full Version : Thirds

11-19-2002, 11:01 AM
Over the course of existence, the concept of a Third Eye seems to make a bit more sense than once thought. By removing the boundaries of culture/socialization, personal situation & what we know is true or false, is it really true that philosophical understanding can take place? And if so...understanding of what? In some circumstances, the Third Eye is but an existential epiphany, a relaization of what the world is ---actually consisted of--- without governing bodies influencing the person. In order to have such realizations, the self must make a realization. But...how?

It seems the 'self' is in a constant reaffirmation of existence, the pursuit of meaning; the meaning of life. Why consciousness abounds. What it meanse...if anything. But why does the self even search for meaning? Would the self search for meaning if meaning was found? If so...would the self cease to exist? Are the two mutually exclusive or are they distinct bodies all together? We must examine what the self is before we can understand anything else.

One of the classical sociological theorists, Thomas Cooley, proposed the concept of the 'looking glass self'. This theory, basically, is that an individuals self perception is formed by the environment/culture, past experiences & (most importantly) the perceptions & reactions of significant others (people who have influence in an organisms life). To the point, our concept of who or what we are is an evolving process that continually changes & is subject to whatever definition the situation beholds.

So, in other words, we have no one constant self nor perception of self. It is changing, situation to situation.

The Third Eye is not the self. The Third Eye is not an examination nor relation to the self. The self is a conscious-bound entity that is a needy & greedy creature. It is the outcome of consciousnes...it is what consciousness creates (in ****-sapiens) to present logistical rationalizations of existence.

The Third Eye is a concept of 'rising above' the self; observing reality in an un-obscurred context. The problem, herein, is a fundamental one.

If a Third Eye 'awakening' transpires, then it is, by default, untrue. The self cannot be blocked out completely nor can it be a passive mode of awareness...so, any realizations or epiphanies are most likely entirely false. Reality, consciously consctructed, continually influences everything the Third Eye-awakening- attempts to understand. The use of hallucinogens in attempting to understand the Third Eye only obscure it that much more as they have their own issues which affect the self on a negative sphere. It should be noted that although drugs may assist in expanding the concept and definition of the self-concept of an individual, that is an entirely different experience than understanding the Third Eye.

The Third Eye is not awakened by hallucinogens. It is not awakened by aggression. Perhaps, the only way it may be understood is through complete surrender. Surrender of what is the question of the topic and also the question the self searches for, continually. For some, the self is surrendered by hallucinations for others not. There is no one answer.

So.What does this all mean? Isn't that the question, really?.

11-19-2002, 01:08 PM
jesus fucking christ, man!!! i just read what you had to say about the Third Eye and was so fucking blown away. did you write all that yourself? may i quote you (if i use your name as a reference)?

i only dis-agreed with you on ONE statement.....
you claim that "the third eye is not awakened by hallucinogens," that it can only be understood by "complete surrender." personally, i rarely have ever felt COMPLETE surrender. and it was only (not ONLY) when i took a form of hallucinogenic chemicals that i was able to release and let go of the world around me and COMPLETELY SURRENDER to my mind (third eye). for example, there was a time when i took some mushrooms with my really good friend. there was no light in my bedroom so we were encased in complete darkness. ironically, we were listening to tool......i think the alternate version of pushit was playin. i HONESTLY left my body and the physical world around me. my mind was open to ALL. this spiritual babble might not make since to someone else. but honestly, i doesnt matter if you understand what im saying. but for the first time, i saw through my (spiritual eye) third eye. i have never dipped my toes into spirituality or meditation before. but this "experiece" or "trip" opened me up to a whole new realm of reality. i guess you could say i was "prying open my third eye." and in the end, you dont have to agree with me. i just wanted to let my words speak the truth and use this forum as my own perosnal "soap-box."

-s p i r a l - o u t - k e e p - g o i n g-

11-19-2002, 01:39 PM
Or could it be about anal-sex? ;) ;)

That was...good.

Third Eye = self observation?

Paul Greiner
11-19-2002, 09:05 PM
It sounds like alot of these people that are posting here are on a very good path to be on. If you are even reading this you are are on a good path to be on. The things that are being spoken of here resemble the thoughts and discussions of humans from ancient history. Consciousness has been the one thing that humans have been pondering since the dawn of man. It is the one divine thing that connects all of us. These people here, posting on this site, are going in the right direction. The people of the world, who take the time and the effort to break through to others and have the same done to them are all going in the right direction. I shouldn't even be saying the RIGHT direction, all of these people are going period. It all can relate a great deal to Zen and the concept of reaching satori enlightenment. The totality of things is that these words that you are reading right now ARE you, and the whole experience of learning from this page, this band, me, and words in general, are an experience that is alive inside of you. The experience that you have and the one that I have are of the rarest form in essence to universal time. There is no I or You, and there never was, we are all sharing this, and that is the way it always has and will be done. Keep sharing, and always realize that this screen you are looking at is just a matrix of color molecules that your lightsource is enabling you to see, and inside of this computer, there is a little goblin eating peanut butter and jelly burritos. THINK FOR YOURSELF, QUESTION AUTHORITY......................................... .......................................oh wait, by stating that, i've done just the opposite~

11-19-2002, 09:53 PM
somehow i knew this song would bring out the best in discourse.

so we have a few distinct elements of debate, the "consciousness," the "self," and "surrender" come to mind. i think it is very important to delineate the differences between the consciousness and the self.

according to CG Jung's theories (if you haven't checked them out, i advise you to do so. read some tool lyrics, and you'll realize mjk is very familiar with them) the Self is an archetype... it's an idea within the human mind which goes back to primordial times. what is included in "the self" is different for everybody, but everyone who is remotely sane seems to individually come up with the idea very early in life. it's basically an instinct.

the important thing to recognize is that this Self is not our Consciousness. consciousness is simply self-reflection; the act of experiencing, and knowing you're doing it (i.e., "i think, therefore i am"). consciousness cannot stop, cannot be stopped, cannot be meaningfully changed over the course of our human lives. what "we" do with it is dependent on other elements of our psychic make-up, but the pure consciousness is nothing but the grey line between what's "out there" and what's "in here."

so, is surrender of the self possible? is it actually possible to perceive things, even act upon these stimuli, without involving an idea of our Self at all?

well, yeah. in my experience, this is the goal of Zen satori, the recognition of everything as being one and losing the instinctual selfishness the Self gives us. interestingly, pure christianity achieves much the same goal by creating a figurehead which is more important than the self, Jesus, thus delegating the Self to a secondary role in which its all-consuming nature is destroyed. i'm not sure either path is achievable to everyone, and at any rate both systems work best where the subject has been indoctrinated since birth to a certain mindset.

in my most humble experience, one can achieve such a satori state without years of the lotus posture or flaggelation and tything, through the use of good drugs and good mental exercise. go get high. our society fears mind-expanding drugs because if we learn there is something more important than the Self, the system can't imprison us within our selfish desires for a nice car, a hot chick, and bragging rights. if we learn that this is actually ALL A DREAM (are there better lyrics anywhere!??) and start worrying about helping our fellow man or improving ourselves, their power is gone and the world will have to change into something much trippier. never forget, our rulers are the same as those who killed jesus, socrates, and MLK jr, and they will do it again any chance they get. fnord.

Seven Deep
11-19-2002, 11:22 PM
This is one of my favorite tracks Tool have done. Maybe because its the only one that never seemed to have any sort of definition to me >aside from the title< I never think when I listen to the song....just feel......if the conditions are right.....by the first break in the song, what Maynard is saying does not even sound like words any longer.....then its like being dropped into a room where any concept of space or time or experience does not matter.....

"But the eye seems so familiar"
We've all been there....for some once or twice, others are able to operate their psychic radio at will.....sometimes a breakdown in logic is necessary....because if it persists too long....if there are no periods of intuition.......logic becomes brittle and dangerous. Logic is the most easily corrupted trait a human posseses. The Third Eye is the part you freely acessed as a child and didnt not even know.....but has steadily closed as you have 'grown' into what you are.....what you will be around the time of your next promotion or plaqueable acheivement. The Third eye is the part of your being that does not itself know, but does not need to know......the part some kids used to know somehow that their mother was sad even when she appeared business like in the morning........an emotion or intuition is neither fact nor opinion....it simply is.

"So glad to see you......."
it seems strange when you have those moments now because it makes you feel as if you are once again in that warm place you took for granted. And when those moments do happen....you may spend almost all of it wishing it will never end......rather than bathing in it and enjoying what it is for what it is and not for what it >could be<

"Prying open my third eye"
No matter how good the moment made you feel....be it sexual, inspirational, or financial....its not going to last.....
some people will stop at nothing to squeeze every last second and detail out of it....or fall into the cycle of comparison "You know....this party is almost as good as the one we had on ______ ____ 19__" Dont worry about it too much......you'll have your moments....and hopefully each one would be radically different from the next....you wouldnt want logic to come knocking.

11-20-2002, 01:03 AM
Once I took some ecstasy and Bill Hicks' rant was the truth which I knew as reality. I looked at things and knew (not thought, mind you) that all they were was energy moving at a slow vibration. Life was only a dream, we were all one consciousness. I held onto this BELIEF (NOT just an idea) for quite a while after I came down from my drug. It was the strange but beautiful truth. I understood, what it was, to indeed be a God. Nothing mattered; for this wasn't the only reality; death would only result in a new plateau of existence. Yet everything in this holy experience was of the utmost importance; for it would carry on a firm understanding to the next existence. You see, if this reality is cut short; we will be unprepared for the next ... our third eye sees only one thing: That there is a path to the next existence. You cannot see the path nor touch it; but you do become aware of it. Once you're aware of such a thing; you cannot unlearn it. Perhaps I've gone back to reality to some extent; but I know that there is a path, there is a reason. We are eternal; each reality is preperation for the next. We are essentially Gods of our own realities; everything that happens in our lives happens because our beings as a whole know it's for the benefit of ourself. This cycle is eternal. We do not fear death; we simply fear death until we're prepared for the next plateau of being. WE ARE THE FABRIC OF OUR OWN EXISTENCE. NO ONE CAN TAKE OUR BEING; ONLY OUR PRESENT REALITY. DO NOT FEAR DEATH; BUT ONLY THE LIFE UNLIVED. DO NOT REGRET THE THINGS YOU'VE DONE; BUT THOSE YOU HAVEN'T YET ACCOMPLISHED.

Peace, love, empathy.

the count
11-26-2002, 09:10 PM
third eye- a process of examination from a point outside yourself? eg. critical self examination of the paths you choose, the life you live and the choices you make from a metaphorical 'third eye' which exists independently from yourself. 'why are you running away,' eg. running from the truth they have found about themselves, running from what their 'third eye' has discovered.

11-29-2002, 09:39 PM
No one is going to jump in here in the defense of logic?

Seven Deep, I don't know if I understand what you mean by logic but I certainly don't believe that logic is the most corruptable human trait. If you would care to explain, I am certainly listening. I also find it strange that you seem to encourage intuition, which is nothing more than what we call a human's ability to do inductive logic. For example, where there seems, according to our eyes, to be a "chair" there has almost always been a "chair", so we naturally, when faced with a choice as to where to sit, sit where there seems to be a "chair".

All of this talk about life being just a dream also seems concerning. I am a HUGE Bill Hicks fan, and I believe that one can learn a lot from him, and of course from tool as well. But my objection to a belief in life being a dream is this: to say that life is a dream is to admit that there is something that is life, death then is the end to life -- at least as we know it -- and no one can say with any degree of certainty what happens after death -- if anything. Admitting this, even if life is just a dream then we should still "celibrate this chance to be alive and breathing". I would argue almost exactly the same thing against anything that puts too large a focus on the afterlife -- like most religions.

Think for yourself, but let logic be your guide.