Plato in 46&2/Third Eye

[theamazingtool]

wether or not this has been brought up before, im not sure, but i dont have the time to run through the 10 or so pages of 46&2 threads...

i see some parallels between this song and some of Plato's work "Allegory of the Cave" found in book VII of his masterwork The Republic. Plato tells a story of prisoners who spend thir entire lives tied up facing a wall in front of them. On the wall are casted shadows, which the prisoners know no better but to accept the shadows as real objects, as reality.

The prisoners however, are suspicous that something is not right, they are "looking for a clue", they are "wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions" they want a "piece to cross me over Or a word to guide me in."

Their entire life is an illusion of SHADOWS, until they wake up, are cued in or somehow figure out what reality actually is, until they open their third eye.

...i got a lot more to say about this/support this theory if your interested, but i gotta run to class...

[Inner_Eulogy]

wether or not this has been brought up before, im not sure, but i dont have the time to run through the 10 or so pages of 46&2 threads...

i see some parallels between this song and some of Plato's work "Allegory of the Cave" found in book VII of his masterwork The Republic. Plato tells a story of prisoners who spend thir entire lives tied up facing a wall in front of them. On the wall are casted shadows, which the prisoners know no better but to accept the shadows as real objects, as reality.

The prisoners however, are suspicous that something is not right, they are "looking for a clue", they are "wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions" they want a "piece to cross me over Or a word to guide me in."

Their entire life is an illusion of SHADOWS, until they wake up, are cued in or somehow figure out what reality actually is, until they open their third eye.

...i got a lot more to say about this/support this theory if your interested, but i gotta run to class...

What in the fuck are you on?

[theamazingtool]

life my man...

like i said, ill get back to u on this

[theamazingtool]

SO i have recently been introduced to a portion of Plato's work dealing with the idea of reality. I have noticed some striking parrallels between his work and that of TOOL's, more specifically 46&2. To understand these parallels, you must first be aware of the term and meaning of a/the "Third Eye." This term/ideaology was in fact, NOT coined by TOOL, just as a clarification for you JABRONEYS out there. However, a loose/general definition may be close to the idea of enlightenment.

PLATO'S STORY:"Allegory of the Cave", Book VII of his masterwork "The Republic"
Plato tells a story of prisoners who spend their entire lives tied up, so all that they can see is the wall in front of them. Behind them, their captors display a show, casting shadows on this wall. Since the prisoners have spent their entire lives tied up, they except the shadows as reality. However, the prisoners have a suspicion that there is something more to life.

TRANSLATION:
prisoners = US!!
shadows = material objects, widely held beliefs, THE WORLD WE LIVE IN (figures, lattes, lawsuit, hairpiece)
world in which captors live = THIRD EYE( i dont like this simple comparison, but follow along)

TYING IT ALL TOGETHER:
My shadow's shedding skin and I've been picking Scabs again.(my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)
I'm down Digging through My old muscles(muscles have never been used, restrained entire life)
Looking for a clue. (suspicion of something more)

I've been crawling on my belly(trying to move, but restrained)
Clearing out what could've been.(eliminating false possibilities)
I've been wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions(not wanting to believe the illusions(shadows) that lacked confidence of being real)
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.(some clue to help break the ice)
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in (i wanna know the answer, the meaning of life)

My shadow. (my illusive life)
Change is coming through my shadow.(truth is being seen, through this illusion)
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again. (my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic
And insecure delusions.

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.(i wanna feel the truth)
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within (i wanna feel the evolution of knowing the truth, take place)

My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.(listen to the fact my muscles have never been used)
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.(contemplate what ive been accepting as reality)
Forty-six and two ahead of me. (evolution ahead of me)

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through (its my choice to do what it takes to move passed the bullshit)

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through. (i choose to evolve)

See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me.(fill in the blank yo)

CONCLUSION:
46 = biology of an "everyday" person
2 = the "third eye", the truth, the answer, the meaning to life
46&2 = the evolution of knowing the truth, having a "third eye"


just a thought...

[Inner_Eulogy]

SO i have recently been introduced to a portion of Plato's work dealing with the idea of reality. I have noticed some striking parrallels between his work and that of TOOL's, more specifically 46&2. To understand these parallels, you must first be aware of the term and meaning of a/the "Third Eye." This term/ideaology was in fact, NOT coined by TOOL, just as a clarification for you JABRONEYS out there. However, a loose/general definition may be close to the idea of enlightenment.

Yeahh, well aware of what the "third eye" is in reference to. Also, if you or anyone actually thought Tool coined the the term, then you shouldn't be on this website. I highly doubt there's more than maybe 2-3 people on here that didn't already know both of these things.


PLATO'S STORY:"Allegory of the Cave", Book VII of his masterwork "The Republic"
Plato tells a story of prisoners who spend their entire lives tied up, so all that they can see is the wall in front of them. Behind them, their captors display a show, casting shadows on this wall. Since the prisoners have spent their entire lives tied up, they except the shadows as reality. However, the prisoners have a suspicion that there is something more to life.

TRANSLATION:
prisoners = US!!
shadows = material objects, widely held beliefs, THE WORLD WE LIVE IN (figures, lattes, lawsuit, hairpiece)
world in which captors live = THIRD EYE( i dont like this simple comparison, but follow along)

TYING IT ALL TOGETHER:
My shadow's shedding skin and I've been picking Scabs again.(my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)
I'm down Digging through My old muscles(muscles have never been used, restrained entire life)
Looking for a clue. (suspicion of something more)

I've been crawling on my belly(trying to move, but restrained)
Clearing out what could've been.(eliminating false possibilities)
I've been wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions(not wanting to believe the illusions(shadows) that lacked confidence of being real)
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.(some clue to help break the ice)
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in (i wanna know the answer, the meaning of life)

My shadow. (my illusive life)
Change is coming through my shadow.(truth is being seen, through this illusion)
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again. (my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic
And insecure delusions.

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.(i wanna feel the truth)
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within (i wanna feel the evolution of knowing the truth, take place)

My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.(listen to the fact my muscles have never been used)
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.(contemplate what ive been accepting as reality)
Forty-six and two ahead of me. (evolution ahead of me)

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through (its my choice to do what it takes to move passed the bullshit)

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through. (i choose to evolve)

See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me.(fill in the blank yo)

CONCLUSION:
46 = biology of an "everyday" person
2 = the "third eye", the truth, the answer, the meaning to life
46&2 = the evolution of knowing the truth, having a "third eye"


just a thought...

A thought, yes. Remotely close, no.

Perhaps you should look into Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud if you'd like to redeem yourself.

[theamazingtool]

glad to see someone read it...






seriously

[Hodge]

i recommend research into JUNG and the shadow

[Inner_Eulogy]

i recommend research into JUNG and the shadow

Isn't that what I just said, genius

[Hodge]

no

[Inner_Eulogy]

no

Yeah, it's EXACTLY what I said dumbass...


I think this is repetitive

[Hodge]

you want a medal

[Inner_Eulogy]

you want a medal

Nah, I'd rather have a spare brain to lend you

[SomeUsefulIdiot]

It's all about making your own interpretations of songs. Instead of bashing you for being "wrong", how about a little praise for making a unique comparison? Kudos. I liked the parallel.

[theamazingtool]

thanks. thats all it is too, is a parallel.

again, thanks...

[lolcat]

I liked the parallel.

2nd

[Inner_Eulogy]

It's all about making your own interpretations of songs. Instead of bashing you for being "wrong", how about a little praise for making a unique comparison? Kudos. I liked the parallel.

lol


Go back to your hole n00b

[Hodge]

Nah, I'd rather have a spare brain to lend you

cum

[SomeUsefulIdiot]

lol


Go back to your hole n00b

ha..ok. i figured a person with almost 5000 posts on a forum would respect others opinions a little more, or at least not completely put him down for posting his thoughts on a song that's open to interpretation.

[Inner_Eulogy]

ha..ok. i figured a person with almost 5000 posts on a forum would respect others opinions a little more, or at least not completely put him down for posting his thoughts on a song that's open to interpretation.

Not when it's completely lame.

Interpretation, yes. Teetering on the edge of mental retardation and insanity, NO

[theamazingtool]

Not when it's completely lame.

Interpretation, yes. Teetering on the edge of mental retardation and insanity, NO

mental retardation, no. teetering the borders of insanity, dude im welll over the edge...

[Inner_Eulogy]

mental retardation, no. teetering the borders of insanity, dude im welll over the edge...

I wasn't even talkin to you

[theamazingtool]

well then. further proves my insanity...

[gonzo]

I wasn't even talkin to you

Or me either. But.
Recently, when I listen to 46&2, I get to thinking of the story of Salome and the supposed, Oscar Wilde imposed, Dance of the Seven Veils. This theme was further explored by Tom Robbins in the book Skinny Legs And All. That seven veils of illusion cloud our vision of truth. When we get rid of the veils, all naked and pure, then we will realize our true purpose on this beautiful planet.
It's a nice story. Yet.
Is it going to demand attention around the water cooler?
All these stories eventually all wind up in the cosmic blender.
Pardon me for budding in...

[gonzo]

Hold on. Maybe I was thinking of a different song.
Or was it that other novel, Still LIfe With Woodpecker.
Or both together. Plus some Yung.
Shit.
This has led nowhere. Kafka.

[theamazingtool]

im not sure where your leading me here, boz...

[SomeUsefulIdiot]

Not when it's completely lame.

Interpretation, yes. Teetering on the edge of mental retardation and insanity, NO

Regardless of your view on his comparison, there's something called 'constructive criticism', and this is the furthest thing from it. Not everyone is going to agree, that's why it's an interpretation. Now that you've called his train of thought "the edge of mental retardation", give it a rest and let this thread evolve. (pun)

[Inner_Eulogy]

give it a rest and let this thread evolve. (pun)

I think you need some time to evolve.

[Inner_Eulogy]

Or me either. But.
Recently, when I listen to 46&2, I get to thinking of the story of Salome and the supposed, Oscar Wilde imposed, Dance of the Seven Veils. This theme was further explored by Tom Robbins in the book Skinny Legs And All. That seven veils of illusion cloud our vision of truth. When we get rid of the veils, all naked and pure, then we will realize our true purpose on this beautiful planet.
It's a nice story. Yet.
Is it going to demand attention around the water cooler?
All these stories eventually all wind up in the cosmic blender.
Pardon me for budding in...

Ya lost me Boz

[theamazingtool]

do i hear an echo?




ech...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[gonzo]

im not sure where your leading me here, boz...

I know I was totally cryptic, because all these stories and words start to twirl.
I read what you wrote about Plato. I really like that story. I do.
Yet, that story seemed to lead to another thread to another, and so on.
For me, lately, I have been finding similarities with Tool's music with whatever I have been reading, whether it's Chuck Palahniuk( Fight Club, etc. ), Hunter S. ( Fear and Loathing ), or Tom Robbins, etc...backwards through to Yung, then the Greeks, Plato and Aristotle.
Layers upon layers upon layers, like excavating Stonehenge, every new revelation begets ten new questions.
The kernel of wisdom I was trying to glean was that I have these little epiphanies everyday, like we all do, when it all seems to make sense, and I can sort of see through the illusions clearly.
However, as soon as I go to communicate them, it all falls apart.
So, keep reading, keep writing, talk hard, and keep pushing. And then maybe soon, we will make the break through I truly believe is around the bend.
Res Ipsa Liquiteur

[gonzo]

Ya lost me Boz

Just looking for a strip tease, I suppose.
After crawling around like a viral serpent for a fucking week, it just felt nice to click the letters on the keyboard.
Salome.

[gonzo]

Oh yeah. The book I kept suggesting there is Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins.
And finally, I have not studied all this enough yet to say I have an airtight thesis about any of the lyrics. Just stabbing at shadows, and scratching holes in my meager interpretations.

[gonzo]

Remember, I have only been seriously listening to Tool for three months.
In that respect I am humble and a tad retarded.
But I do really like the aspects of ritual and mantras that I have absorbed because of this musical odyssey.
One day I hope to shred this cocoon holding me in...

[theamazingtool]

sometimes i wish i had the desire to read a book...

[gonzo]

Don't lie. Now.
Seems to me you read lots of stuff.
And if there is no right or wrong, then...
We all get to write our own history, because we all become the stories we tell.
We are all haunted, and every story is a ghost.
For instance, this morning it's Calvin and Hobbes, for me.

[gonzo]

sometimes i wish i had the desire to read a book...

Fuck reading the whole book.
Here's the quote I was mentioning...
" The distinctive human problem from time immemorial has been the need to spiritualize human life, to lift it onto a special immortal plane, beyond the cycles of life and death that characterize all other organisms." --Ernest Becker
And yet regardless of that...
Every step forward we make in the history of civilization there are also parallel advancements in the art of perfumery, and wine and beer production.
Besides, on a cold mountain top, our favorite books are only fortifying when being burned.

[Inner_Eulogy]

sometimes i wish i had the desire to read a book...

Me too, I never find time...or I always somehow find something less constructive to do with my free time...like play online poker

[Inner_Eulogy]

Don't lie. Now.
Seems to me you read lots of stuff.
And if there is no right or wrong, then...
We all get to write our own history, because we all become the stories we tell.
We are all haunted, and every story is a ghost.
For instance, this morning it's Calvin and Hobbes, for me.

I used to love Calvin and Hobbes as a kid

[theamazingtool]

Seems to me you read lots of stuff.

not at all. i havn't read a book since the fourth grade...

[gonzo]

I love poker. Tried to get a game going Saturday night.
Settled on Scooby-Doo monopoly.
Only thing I read was the Ruh-Roh cards.

[Inner_Eulogy]

I love poker. Tried to get a game going Saturday night.
Settled on Scooby-Doo monopoly.
Only thing I read was the Ruh-Roh cards.

Sounds like a blast (I'm being sarcastic)

[gonzo]

Yes. There have been livelier Saturday nights. But the kids seemed to have fun. I lost and rambled away from table and listened to some music.
Probably 46&2.

[lotus.]

Such a shame what happened to Dana Plato.


R.I.P.

[Inner_Eulogy]

No, I do not believe you can accurately make a connection here between 46 and 2 and Plato. I am familiar with Plato's work, however, specifically for this song please read into Carl Yung's "Shadow" as already suggested by another and which I would also agree with.

Never heard of Carl Yung either.

.....that's like the third time you've misspelled it, just FYI.

[Inner_Eulogy]

It's Carl JUNG you fuck.

jfc.

Weren't you just recently claiming I was the one being a prick to people?

[Master_Of_Nothing]

Weren't you just recently claiming I was the one being a prick to people?

Dude, you were a complete dick on the first page, personally SomeUsefulIdiot just pwned you imo. Seriously, heard of constructive criticism? Like, not torching everyone elses ideas because you think you know better? A little respect would be good, instead of being a jackass dictator figure.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

SO i have recently been introduced to a portion of Plato's work dealing with the idea of reality. I have noticed some striking parrallels between his work and that of TOOL's, more specifically 46&2. To understand these parallels, you must first be aware of the term and meaning of a/the "Third Eye." This term/ideaology was in fact, NOT coined by TOOL, just as a clarification for you JABRONEYS out there. However, a loose/general definition may be close to the idea of enlightenment.

PLATO'S STORY:"Allegory of the Cave", Book VII of his masterwork "The Republic"
Plato tells a story of prisoners who spend their entire lives tied up, so all that they can see is the wall in front of them. Behind them, their captors display a show, casting shadows on this wall. Since the prisoners have spent their entire lives tied up, they except the shadows as reality. However, the prisoners have a suspicion that there is something more to life.

TRANSLATION:
prisoners = US!!
shadows = material objects, widely held beliefs, THE WORLD WE LIVE IN (figures, lattes, lawsuit, hairpiece)
world in which captors live = THIRD EYE( i dont like this simple comparison, but follow along)

TYING IT ALL TOGETHER:
My shadow's shedding skin and I've been picking Scabs again.(my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)
I'm down Digging through My old muscles(muscles have never been used, restrained entire life)
Looking for a clue. (suspicion of something more)

I've been crawling on my belly(trying to move, but restrained)
Clearing out what could've been.(eliminating false possibilities)
I've been wallowing in my own confused And insecure delusions(not wanting to believe the illusions(shadows) that lacked confidence of being real)
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.(some clue to help break the ice)
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in (i wanna know the answer, the meaning of life)

My shadow. (my illusive life)
Change is coming through my shadow.(truth is being seen, through this illusion)
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again. (my shadow is shedding an illusion of reality, but im picking it apart)

I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic
And insecure delusions.

I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.(i wanna feel the truth)
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured within (i wanna feel the evolution of knowing the truth, take place)

My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.(listen to the fact my muscles have never been used)
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.(contemplate what ive been accepting as reality)
Forty-six and two ahead of me. (evolution ahead of me)

I choose to live and to
Grow, take and give and to
Move, learn and love and to
Cry, kill and die and to
Be paranoid and to
Lie, hate and fear and to
Do what it takes to move through (its my choice to do what it takes to move passed the bullshit)

I choose to live and to
Lie, kill and give and to
Die, learn and love and to
Do what it takes to step through. (i choose to evolve)

See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty six and two are just ahead of me.(fill in the blank yo)

CONCLUSION:
46 = biology of an "everyday" person
2 = the "third eye", the truth, the answer, the meaning to life
46&2 = the evolution of knowing the truth, having a "third eye"


just a thought...

I don't agree with your conclusion, insomuch as i don't inherently believe in most peoples concept of a third eye. However, i have heard of Platos cave allegory, and it does tie in quite nicely with the lyrics. Not so much as a deliberate link between the two as an interesting insight when comparing the two i guess

[Inner_Eulogy]

Dude, you were a complete dick on the first page, personally SomeUsefulIdiot just pwned you imo. Seriously, heard of constructive criticism? Like, not torching everyone elses ideas because you think you know better? A little respect would be good, instead of being a jackass dictator figure.

First of all, that was roughly 8mos ago. Secondly, I haven't been giving anybody a hard time pretty much since then. Third, you were pwned the day you were born. Third, he didn't even come close to pwning me just because he asked why I was fuckin with him. Fourth, I'm no dictator figure. And lastly, get off my fucking nuts...I really don't feel like going through another full fledged argument with some fucking internet chump all over again.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

You probably don't read your own posts if you think you haven't been a dick since then haha, you still beat up on people.

Me, pwned since birth? gtfo, you don't how my life rolls dude, you're not even close to understanding a scrap of what im like.

No dictator figure? check out what kinda shit you've been posting dude, open your eyes.

Im not gonna go the full argument here, i'll be content with you doing less negative criticism, you think you can pull that off?

[Master_Of_Nothing]

Dude, i didnt point it out for a reason. no need to kick a man when he's down/overkill

[Inner_Eulogy]

You probably don't read your own posts if you think you haven't been a dick since then haha, you still beat up on people.

Me, pwned since birth? gtfo, you don't how my life rolls dude, you're not even close to understanding a scrap of what im like.

No dictator figure? check out what kinda shit you've been posting dude, open your eyes.

Im not gonna go the full argument here, i'll be content with you doing less negative criticism, you think you can pull that off?

Whatever you say Jeb

[Inner_Eulogy]

you said third twice.

Aw shit....oh well

[Inner_Eulogy]

Dude, i didnt point it out for a reason. no need to kick a man when he's down/overkill

Now that's funny.


I don't even know where the fuck your attitude came from to begin with. Aside from me and Rivek I've made maybe one or tow comments to random people in months. Oh and Crincle.

Please show me otherwise.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

If you don't get me now, give up trying imo. There's a whole bunch of layers to me, that i don't think you'd ever encounter unless you meet me in person.

Which i think i'd enjoy, if you're ever heading to NZ, give me a buzz.

Do Rivek and Crincle not count? Well, if you wanna look at it that way.....







You spelt 'two' wrong btw...

[Inner_Eulogy]

If you don't get me now, give up trying imo. There's a whole bunch of layers to me, that i don't think you'd ever encounter unless you meet me in person.

Which i think i'd enjoy, if you're ever heading to NZ, give me a buzz.

Do Rivek and Crincle not count? Well, if you wanna look at it that way.....



You spelt 'two' wrong btw...

I get along with you for the most part, always have...and no offense but I don't really care about your taco dip layers. There's layers to every human being. The same goes for me as I'm sure it is for even Rivek, of all people, that he may be an entirely different persona in person than he is online.

I don't count Rivek or Crincle because they were the ones that started the flaming in both of this cases.

Yeah yeah, so there was an OBVIOUS typo...I don't watse my time proof reading my shit. But if you really want to nit pick, you used lower case I's in nearly every single instance where they should have been capitalized.

[Master_Of_Nothing]

thats more grammar i reckon haha, i dont do grammar online haha.

besides you done it again, and this time it wasnt so obvious haha.
never mind, uni is getting to me. its the whole lack of sleep for a week thing, its got me shaking and hallucinating haha

[Inner_Eulogy]

blah