PDA

View Full Version : People who dislike Lateralus


eulogy508
09-23-2003, 07:46 PM
I recently talked with someone at school, I saw he was listening to Aenima, and so we discussed tool for a moment. He said aenima was the only tool cd he had and that he sold lateralus on ebay because he didn't like it.... I know that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but I would like to know more about why some of you people dislike Lateralus...

I've read things and some fans of early tool say lateralus is 'hippy music' and aenima is way better. let me ask you, how is lateralus 'hippy' music'? If you would call anything hippy music it would be maybe pink floyd, I could understand that. but the music is amazingly good, the lyrics aren't clearly about drugs, unless you search deep into them to find a greater meaning than the average person would upon first listen.

So, people on tdn who prefer aenima and earlier to lateralus, come forth and tell me your reasons....

dnorm
09-24-2003, 07:50 AM
I consider myself an "early" TOOL fan and I couldn't disagree more with your classmate. I think that Lateralus is the greatest TOOL album yet. That's not to say I don't like the others. I love all of their albums. I think that Lateralus is a little more "In your face" as far as making you think about the lyrics. Their other albums have done the same thing, but musically they have allowed the listener to think that they were just listening to a metal band. I've come to find over the years that many people don't want to think about what their listening to....

Good post eulogy508

eslupminoyler
09-24-2003, 08:03 AM
opiate undertow and aenima are incredible but they are also negative these albums heal people that are negative, Lateralus has only one song that is not warm, conforting, and/or healing. Who wouldn't like the song Reflection, it gives me chills and when I listen to it I can make the night sky change colors

supersonic2006
09-24-2003, 04:05 PM
I think some people like Tool's earlier albums because they being ignorant, like the angry, nu metalish "fuck you" surface appearance of songs like hooker with a penis, AEnema, and Eulogy. These people didn't like the lack of anger and profanity that Lateralus brought. They don't want to celebrate life, but to instead condemn others. They only made it so far in the journey that is Tool.

crow011
09-24-2003, 04:18 PM
this is really interesting, because i would argue that a perfect circles new one is in the similar vein as lateralus . . .

its a lot more complex and a little harder to get in to, just like lateralus was . . .

remember, too, that most fans were expecting another aenima, or at least an extension of it . . . a lot of people (and id actually argue most people) were expecting the same thing with thirteenth step . . .

people dont like lateralus because its not what the expected, or what they like about TOOLs previous albums . . . the same applies to thirteenth step . . .

its either that, or these same people simply have no fucking taste or class what-so-ever . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

neochrist
09-24-2003, 09:16 PM
what i dont get it is, how most people trash on bands that dont change up there sound, such as every album stays the same, and i know a lot of bands that the first album i loved, and the second one came out and all the songs kinda blended together and you couldnt really distinguish them from any other song on the album, i credit this usually to asshole producers who tell bands what to sound like to sale, and what tool is done is come out everytime and throw something never really done before and change up everything, and no tool song sounds like another, its amazing what they've done in my opinion, but still a lot of people trash on them for changing to much, im beggining to think you can't make the average person happy anymore

dischordance
09-25-2003, 01:59 AM
I think some people like Tool's earlier albums because they being ignorant, like the angry, nu metalish "fuck you" surface appearance of songs like hooker with a penis, AEnema, and Eulogy. These people didn't like the lack of anger and profanity that Lateralus brought. They don't want to celebrate life, but to instead condemn others.
You're generalising - and condemning others as you do it.

Personally, I prefer Aenima. Not just a little, either - I genuinely think Aenima is hugely more impressive than Lateralus. That's just personal opinion.
Am I a metal head?
I don't know. Tool is the only metal band I've ever actually listened to properly.
Was I expecting another Aenima?
Probably not, because Lateralus was my first Tool album.
And, it was great, originally. Lateralus really kicked my ass and opened me up to music in a whole new way (and enlightened me to the fact that metal isn't the retarded genre I always took it for).
Aenima, on the other hand, I absolutely loathed first time I heard it. Harsh, aggressive, dark industrial noise was what it sounded like.
Maybe that's why I prefer it now - it took me weeks, months of repeatedly playing Aenima before I started to appreaciate it. And even now, well over a year on, I'm still making sense of all of it - it grew on me like you wouldn't believe.
My love for Lateralus, on the other hand, diminished with repeated playings, despite the technical superiority of it all - it just didn't, in my opinion, have the depth of Aenima. Or the raw, spiritual emotion.
Now, it's still a great album, but it wouldn't even make my top five (while Aenima would definately be number one).
And, you asked, "why?"
Sorry. There's no accounting for taste, is there?

Aenima is why I love Tool. It's a fucking masterpiece. Lateralus, in my opinion, is just a great album. The Kid A to Aenima's OK Computer, if you will.
I don't know why that particular opinion would make me ignorant in any way.

Fatman
09-25-2003, 02:33 AM
what i dont get it is, how most people trash on bands that dont change up there sound, such as every album stays the same, and i know a lot of bands that the first album i loved, and the second one came out and all the songs kinda blended together and you couldnt really distinguish them from any other song on the album, i credit this usually to asshole producers who tell bands what to sound like to sale, and what tool is done is come out everytime and throw something never really done before and change up everything, and no tool song sounds like another, its amazing what they've done in my opinion, but still a lot of people trash on them for changing to much, im beggining to think you can't make the average person happy anymore
Hmm I would actually object to that, at first, 5 of Ænimas songs sound the same, Forty Six & Two, H. and Jimmy sound very much alike upon first hearing, and so does Stinkfist and Eulogy

Me...I Love Them both, Ænima seems to be a really good album all around but Lateralus had some really good songs that I really took fondly to

Nothingtosay
09-26-2003, 04:28 PM
I consider myself an "early" TOOL fan and I couldn't disagree more with your classmate. I think that Lateralus is the greatest TOOL album yet. That's not to say I don't like the others. I love all of their albums. I think that Lateralus is a little more "In your face" as far as making you think about the lyrics. Their other albums have done the same thing, but musically they have allowed the listener to think that they were just listening to a metal band. I've come to find over the years that many people don't want to think about what their listening to....

Good post eulogy508

Well said. I agree

Patches
09-26-2003, 09:11 PM
I'm one to listen to lateralus damn near religiously sometimes, but in my opinion aenima is the better of the two albums souly because you can kind of hear maynards involvement with it. The band wrote lateralus while maynard was still into touring with APC, so the music was sort of detatched frmo the lyrics. Not to say the lyrics in Lateralus dont fit, but aenima has a certian flow to it thats a little deeper then lateralus'. The argument towards lateralus may be that it is a more positive album, and its flow is a little more apparent(possibly having to do wth the entire album being in D) but in my mind Aenima stops right where the human psyche should kick in. The negativity in aenima(hooker, aenema, eulogy...etc.) should actually intice the listener to make up their own little lateralus in their minds. They provide the first half of the emotions and I think they left it up to the listener to find their own resolution to some of the problems. Lateralus to me is more what the band had in mind for the extention of Aenima. Some may think this is a little too much to ask from the average rocker, but Maynard does put a lot of trust in the fans.

dnorm
09-29-2003, 09:12 AM
The band wrote lateralus while maynard was still into touring with APC, so the music was sort of detatched frmo the lyrics

I had heard an interview with Maynard and I thought I remember him saying somthing about how he writes all the lyrics after all the must is written. He said something about how "It's all about the music", and the lyrics are just an extension of the emotions brought out by the instruments.

Patches
09-29-2003, 01:48 PM
yeah, but maynard's presence has to have some influence over the final product of the album, just because he doesnt "play" an instrument doesnt mean he doesnt give input to the instrumentals. I dont mean to say that the other three are useless without him, but his not being there might have had something to do with it.

Macrame
09-29-2003, 07:52 PM
The argument towards lateralus may be that it is a more positive album, and its flow is a little more apparent(possibly having to do wth the entire album being in D)

Wrong there ... Parabol/a is played with both the E and A strings dropped an entire fifth. Lateralus probably feels like it flows more because three songs are divided into numerous tracks (Eon Blue, The Patient ... Parabol, Parabola ... Disposition, Reflection, Triad). Once you cut through the tracks and remove the noise ... it leaves you with The Grudge, The Patient, Schism, Parabola, Ticks and Leeches, Lateralus, and D/R/T. That's only six different "songs." Even though each track to the multitracked songs has a completely different air to it ... I still can't listen to Reflection without Disposition and the same goes for the rest.

The album still has an apparent progression to it ... but I still find Aenima to be my favorite of the two. No reason behind it ... I just get chillier listening to it.

Patches
09-30-2003, 03:35 PM
true, but many keys are sorta interchangable, but the thing about the multiple tracks is quite true, but to me the album does link itself quite well. I do agree with out about Ænima, its my favorite of the two.

Macrame
10-04-2003, 12:35 PM
Yeah ... I guess the only parts where the B/E is necessary is that monster riff at the end.

shade13
10-05-2003, 08:31 PM
I've read things and some fans of early tool say lateralus is 'hippy music' and aenima is way better. let me ask you, how is lateralus 'hippy' music'?


Maybe they meant HAPPY music. What I saw to some early reactions, because the content was much more geared towards being you know, in a positive mental state, that those who were still forged in the fires of depression just couldn't accept it.

I don't think one should really compare the two albums without recognizing the 5 year gap. In that five years, they evolved. Matured. There's no way one sane person can continue in that dark passion without burning ones self out. Imagine, being them, pushing as hard as they did with AEnima. No matter how hard you worship them, they felt those things and they did those things and none of us did. After all that, I can understand why Lateralus was so melow.

Personally, I prefer Lateralus simply for The Patient. It's the simple wisdom that won me over.

reddish
10-06-2003, 08:29 PM
Lateralus is sometimes confusing and about new age stuff. Aenema's lyrics are about desensitization, divorce (i think), frustration with society. Aenema is also funnier. The hippy music coments were probably about the new age stuff as well as, the bass. Personally my preference differs depending on my mood. Right now i feel like listening to "Opiate" and just driving around. Bye.

ComeInNumber51
10-09-2003, 07:14 AM
The thing about Lateralus compared to Aenima, Undertow, or Opiate.... is that the songs have a direct link. The earlier three are many great songs put on an album. Lateralus is more than that. Lateralus not only has meaning in the songs themselves, but also in the order of the songs and simply that these songs are together. Tool seems to be giving us directions towards this transformative process. Almost a recipe to be a good person. Using the six main songs mentioned before, The Grudge: Getting rid of the Grudges is getting rid of all the blatant, unnecessary anger. The Patient is getting rid of the more subtle mental flaws in, along with the grudge, calming the body and mind. Schism is the reparation of or the maintining of Good Relationship... something we all need. Parabol and Parabola are looking towards optimism. Ticks and Leeches, well, that anger is the alternative. Lateralis: More of an intangible spiritual transformation. Disposition seems to be saying "If you listen and heed what the first part of the album has said.... watch the weather change"... the weather seems to be an indicator of mood. If you follow this recipe... you're life will change for the better. Reflection is once this overall transformation has happened.... the further pursuit of a much more spiritual life. Something like this has never been done before. We should keep them in our prayers for giving us such a gift.

Zinnia
10-09-2003, 10:49 AM
i read somewhere, maybe an interview, i don't remember, but the point is maynard said something along the lines of you can only be angry and scream for so long.
tool grew, that's all, and i belive it's a good thing for any band. they decided to learn something new. if you look at all tools albums there are changes between all of them, especialy opiate and undertow. i can understand that not everyone happens to like what tool learned ro grew into, but if they don't appreciate it they can shove a large cactus up their ass. everyone and everything grows in some way, you just have to learn to accept it.
personaly, i think lateralus is amazing.

ComeInNumber51
10-09-2003, 12:39 PM
Also.... Lateralus takes rhythm past another level into another dimension. It's so condusive to visionary experiences that a lump grows in my throat when I speak of it.

Reverend Jacob
10-10-2003, 10:10 AM
Let's just end this all by saying Tool is one of the best albums in the history of mankind. If not the best.

AllforUnity
10-11-2003, 01:45 AM
TOOL is the best band in the history of mandkind...and any true fan would like TOOL no matter what, or how they produce their music.

eulogy508
10-12-2003, 05:00 PM
TOOL is the best band in the history of mandkind...and any true fan would like TOOL no matter what, or how they produce their music.

stop postpumping...

AllforUnity
10-12-2003, 05:23 PM
How about you fuck off? This is an opinion site, where l can express whatever l wish. How short or long my opinion is, is irrelevant. l could say the same thing to you as well, when all you said was "Stop postpumping" You say a total of 2 words, what the fuck do you call that?

AllforUnity
10-12-2003, 05:24 PM
Sorry...that was harsh, l'm not in a good mood. :/...

Next time l will try to post something longer, rather than just saying some totally opinionated comment, instead of something useful.

Zeromus
10-13-2003, 02:03 PM
hey people! all of us are Tool Fans, right? if we are a truly fan of Tool, lets try to understand the feeling that the band is triying to give us.

Well i think that this is the most spiritual album of the band. if you read the lyrics of Lateralus while listening the album, then you will find out that this is the most beatifull album of the band and i think this is the best alum is the history of the music (only comparable with "The Dark Side of the Moon" by the gods of Pink Floyd). I think that it is, in fact, the best album of Tool (but the best SONG, not alum, of Tool is clearly Pushit live from Salival)

The_Outsider
10-14-2003, 05:42 PM
I think that many of you have excellent opinions and we're starting to progress a lot, now we're having comments like "we are all Tool fans, we should appreciate them for what they do" which i think is dead on, where previously we had the whole "lets see in black and white, its good, no it sucks ass" i think seeing in colour [an idea introduced by the song Lateralus, no less] is an interesting thing here because i believe that in saying that each album appeals to people differently because of our differences in mood, religion and belief etc. is more accurate than saying it is either good or bad, whatever our differences at least we are all bound in one sense, Tool are absoloutely awesome. period.

eulogy508
10-14-2003, 06:16 PM
Sorry...that was harsh, l'm not in a good mood. :/...

Next time l will try to post something longer, rather than just saying some totally opinionated comment, instead of something useful.

yeah I guess I was in a bad mood too, i just said that because I saw you had just posted a lot of times in a row in a million different forum sections...

Loki2099
10-26-2003, 03:59 PM
Each album is an outgrowth of the previous album, people who dont like Lateralus in all likelyhood are simply not ready for it yet, Opiate identifies societial bs and is probably their most traditional rock album. Undertow confronts the realities someone would face in breaking from the "Opiates", Aenima explores how one can look inside and personally grow out or and beyond the depths of Undertow, concluding with Lateralus which explores the interpersonal application of the freed mind via riding spirals (communication networks). Lateralus haters are probably still stuggling with the in between more than some others, if you have learned anything from tool you ought to talk to them about it.

clown137
11-01-2003, 11:19 PM
I think tool is great. (notice period)

zxz
11-21-2003, 06:56 AM
I feel lateralus is a "hopeful" statement. Bands and artists may tend to grow out of earlier periods of cynicism. Maybe, this optimisim has been present all along but not so much expressed in eairlier statements. In my opinion, The patient and lateralus are both songs that are full of "eventual" optimism for the future in the lyrics.
Lyrics aside, musically Lateralus is less eclectic than pervious albums. Sort of a flowing progression from begining to end. A dark Side of the Moon or Precence style album. Slighty static with a eventual balance.
Danny Carrey is superb. Carrey is a complete asset to ANY band. Without kissing the bands ass any further, that album is quiet a fine artistic statement.
zxz

eulogy508
11-22-2003, 10:08 AM
the reason I cant imagine Tool's next album is because how can it be a step forward from lateralus? So I kind of think it might be a little step back, or a completely new direction that sounds very different from lateralus

BigCheese
11-22-2003, 10:32 AM
For me, the first Tool CD I got was Lateralus. I didn't like it because of how long it was. I didn't appreciate the intensity of the screaming on "Track 8" I didn't like track 2, 4, or 6 because they had no vocals (and Parabol lasted too long for me). Reflection had just too long of an intro and... well, you get the drift. I didn't appreciate Tool's musical set-up. At that time I was listening to Korn, Linkin' Park, Green Day, Nirvana, System of a Down, and stuff like that (I still like the last three to an extent). I couldn't appreciate the set-up they'd do to put you in the mood for the music (sexual pun intended). I didn't hate the album, I just would listen to Ticks and Leeches (fast forwarding the slow part), Schism, Parabola, The Grudge, and Lateralus (fast forwarding the intro sometimes). Later, my friend let me borrow a copy of Opiate, and I fell in love with it! "Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit" and "Shoot you in your fucking head" were just awesome at that time. I then got Aenima and loved it, but couldn't appreciate Third Eye (of course I loved Hooker with a Penis). I never really liked Undertow and still don't to this day.

Basically, what I'm saying is that it took me a long time to appreciate what the length of a song can do. There's nothing wrong with Hooker with a Penis, Ticks and Leeches and Aenima, they are good, angry songs. But basically, it's hard for people to appreciate a positive apperance in such a "darker" band. They don't realize that there's light at the end of the tunnel in Aenima also. But my friend once said "Lateralus lyrics aren't as good." So, obviously, they miss the profane angry music.

Man, it took me that long to explain "they miss the profanity and anger" Oh well. My point still stays.

Dyscopimp
02-14-2004, 03:37 AM
i agree with A Perfect Circle's Thirteenth Step and Tool's Lateralus having the same effect on the listeners of the earlier albums. However I think that in both bands Maynard is moving toward making an Album as opposed to making a song, however i believe that 90% of what is on any of his albums could "make it" as a song on its own.

As far as die hard fans of AEnima hating Lateralus, I think sometimes people spend too much time liking being angry, there is more to life than that. Dont get me wrong, I love AEnima, but it has its place, it is far from the end all be all of anything.

dischordance
02-14-2004, 04:47 AM
How many "angry" songs are there on Ænima? The only one I can think of is Hooker With A Penis, just like Ticks And Leeches on Lateralus. The only other track you people could be thinking of is Ænema - which actually has an ingenius, chaotic, apocalyptic vibe.
Listen to the music under, "Some say a comet will fall from the sky..."
Overall, Ænima is creepy rather than angry.

What annoys me here is all the fucking assumptions that are being made.
For example: If you like Lateralus better, you heard it first, and therefore, are not OGT, and therefore, are not entitled to an opinion.
Another example: If you like Ænima better, you like stupid angry bullshit.

I mean. Really.
Did some of you guys actually hear of taste?

I like Ænima better because of the dreamlike tones, the overall nightmarish acid-trip shit it realises so brilliantly. If you were to ask me of albums I consider to be similar to Ænima, I'd say Maxinquaye by Tricky and Selected Ambient Works Vol. 2, by Aphex Twin. Which is funny, because neither of them are metal albums, neither of them have much anger, and neither of them sound much like Ænima. But those three albums, to me, capture the essence of that feverish dream stage of a flu infection, man.
Lateralus actually might be my favourite, if it hadn't been for Ticks And Leeches and Parabola, which, while both being good songs, are not up the quality of the rest of the album. That's basically 17 minutes worth of less-than-truly-fucking-awesome material.
Furthermore, I consider the lyrics to be weaker on Lateralus because they're mostly based around simplified, universal themes which could apply to just about anything, wheras Ænima was more personal, emotional, and brilliantly layered with meaning. Disposition is fucking genius, however.
All this, and, my favourite Tool songs are H., jimmy, Pushit, and Third Eye. And they're all on Ænima.

Once again. For those in the back. I MOSTLY DO NOT LISTEN TO METAL. Man. Isn't that weird. Obviously, it means I was raised a catholic and have a lot of pent-up aggression, or something.

As for album flow - I consider Thirteenth Step to be far more cohesive than Lateralus. Thirteenth Step flows beautifully (and, in my opinion, is shockingly better than Mer De Noms).

So. To finish off. People's taste in art has no bearing on their perso... etc. etc. etc.
I swear. Some people think Requiem For A Dream is a good movie. Who the fuck knows how taste works.

Madklikor
02-14-2004, 06:52 AM
I like Ænima better because of the overall nightmarish acid-trip shit it realises so brilliantly.

I love that definition. Lot's of aggressive but funny stuff on Aenima. Lateralus is more dreamy, contemplative...

Lateralus actually might be my favourite, if it hadn't been for Ticks And Leeches and Parabola, which, while both being good songs, are not up the quality of the rest of the album. That's basically 17 minutes worth of less-than-truly-fucking-awesome material.

I don't agree with that... I thought the same thing when I first got Lateralus, but Parabola takes a totally different dimention with Parabol. On its own, it's a good but standard prog-rock song, but with parabol... it's a totally different thing. It swifts and goes through all different moods that it doesn't have when you only listen to parabola, especially the end of parabola which takes all its sense with parabol (the peace (parabol) - the big rock song with all its rhythm changes that leads progressively to this heavy rock riff - the peace again : beautiful).

Furthermore, I consider the lyrics to be weaker on Lateralus because they're mostly based around simplified, universal themes which could apply to just about anything, wheras Ænima was more personal, emotional, and brilliantly layered with meaning. Disposition is fucking genius, however.

I don't agree with that statement... The themes on Lateralus are more universal for sure, but the way they are written is still very personnal. And I believe even if the general themes are easier to get on Lateralus, the details of the songs are very hard to interpret and deals with more complex ideas (The grudge is a good example... tons of metaphors and links between every verses). Lyricaly, Lateralus is way better than Aenima for me (especially The grudge, Lateralus, Schism and Reflection). Aenima have great songs too, but they sound more like standard rock song lyrics (the lyrics to pushit for example are great, but not particularly original in its themes and the way they are conveyed). The langage is far more advanced on Lateralus too, closer to poetry than just rock songs.

So. To finish off. People's taste in art has no bearing on their perso... etc. etc. etc.
I swear. Some people think Requiem For A Dream is a good movie. Who the fuck knows how taste works.

Actually tastes are mostly cultural and psychological entities that deal with unconscious expectations and representations of the things that surrounds us... but hey that's another topic.

LabRat404
02-14-2004, 11:06 AM
opiate undertow and aenima are incredible but they are also negative these albums heal people that are negative, Lateralus has only one song that is not warm, conforting, and/or healing. Who wouldn't like the song Reflection, it gives me chills and when I listen to it I can make the night sky change colors

Opiate was a very hard and negative album, undertoe wasnt as negative, but was more ore less about being down in the dumps (in the undertow), aenima was and Emina for his negativity, and lateralus is the new and improved self. its chronological growth in the band/Maynard.

dischordance
02-14-2004, 10:01 PM
I love that definition. Lot's of aggressive but funny stuff on Aenima. Lateralus is more dreamy, contemplative...
Disposition-Reflection-Triad, is, sure. The rest of the album, though, doesn't seem to have any cohesive feel or tone to it. That's probably why I prefer Ænima, come to think of it. I love atmosphere, and there didn't seem as much of it.
Take the title track. It's one of the best tracks on the album, sure, but it isn't big on atmosphere like jimmy or Eulogy. Perhaps I'm missing it.
I think Lateralus is more progressive album, more focused on instrumentation and songwriting than mood and tone. Ænima just seems like a soundtrack to the movie in my head.
Another thing I liked Ænima was the duality of it - it was hard and soft, dark and light at the exact same time. It's ugly and beautiful at the exact same time. Industrial and organic. It actually reminds me of a HR Giger painting in it's contradictions. Lateralus, on the other hand, was entirely based on light and beauty, which it creates wonderfully. For a supposed metal album, Lateralus is practically radiant. But it's just not as fascinating as that weird, ugly-ass semimechanical baby that is Ænima which can also be beautiful, when looked at the right way.
I don't agree with that... I thought the same thing when I first got Lateralus, but Parabola takes a totally different dimention with Parabol. On its own, it's a good but standard prog-rock song, but with parabol... it's a totally different thing. It swifts and goes through all different moods that it doesn't have when you only listen to parabola, especially the end of parabola which takes all its sense with parabol (the peace (parabol) - the big rock song with all its rhythm changes that leads progressively to this heavy rock riff - the peace again : beautiful).
For a little clarification here, when I said "Parabola", I meant, "Parabol/a". I thought it would be assumed that I was referring to them as one track, because, really, who the fuck listens to them seperately.
I don't have anything against the way Parabol and Parabola compliment each other, Parabola, to me, just feels like a more mainstream, poppier song compared to the rest of Lateralus. Complete with catchy riffs and chorus.
Again, not saying it's not a GOOD song, it's just up to the level of the rest of Lateralus.
The langage is far more advanced on Lateralus too, closer to poetry than just rock songs.
I'll agree with that (especially on Schism and Reflection), as well as everything else you said about the lyrics (except for Pushit. Mainly because Pushit is probably the only song on Ænima that I'm unable to connect to. I just don't get it.). I still think H. and Jimmy in particular have fantastic lyrics, and I just prefer that style over the broader, more expansive range of Lateralus. Again, it's taste, right?

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this - I'm just glad someone stopped saying: "People like Ænima better because it's more aggressive." Probably because I'm a hypocritical ass that thinks that everyone should agree with me when I say that Ænima was hypnotic and trippy.

Madklikor
02-15-2004, 05:08 AM
Disposition-Reflection-Triad, is, sure. The rest of the album, though, doesn't seem to have any cohesive feel or tone to it. That's probably why I prefer Ænima, come to think of it. I love atmosphere, and there didn't seem as much of it.

I don't really agree with you here. I think there are different atmospheres on Lateralus and on Aenima... All D/R/T, the quiet parts of the grudge, the beginning of The patient, Parabol (isn't that pure atmosphere?), the bridge of Lateralus... the "harder" parts have also strong flavours (the end of Lateralus, the end of the grudge). atmosphere is what makes Tool great to me, and I find as much of it in Lateralus and Aenima... just different colors. I also feel that the lack of standard structure helps to set the moods for me (contrary to Aenima where the verse+chorus structure is often used - even if it's brilliantly use).

Take the title track. It's one of the best tracks on the album, sure, but it isn't big on atmosphere like jimmy or Eulogy. Perhaps I'm missing it.

The bridge is colorful... I don't see any real difference between Lateralus and Eulogy... to me Lateralus is the closest song to Aenima. Maybe Lateralus (the album) is harsher, drier, more abstract.

I think Lateralus is more progressive album, more focused on instrumentation and songwriting than mood and tone.

But there is still and even more place for mood... Parabol, Disposition, the first four minutes of Reflection, are just moods... there wasn't any of this kind of music on Aenima (except stuff like the beginning of Eulogy or 46 & 2, but they weren't as long).

Another thing I liked Ænima was the duality of it - it was hard and soft, dark and light at the exact same time. It's ugly and beautiful at the exact same time. Industrial and organic. It actually reminds me of a HR Giger painting in it's contradictions. Lateralus, on the other hand, was entirely based on light and beauty, which it creates wonderfully.

Yep I totally agree with you on that one. That's why I like both of them... they are different, and in a sence, Lateralus wouldn't be as beautiful if Aenima, if this duality, this confrontation, hadn't exist before it. There is a sence of accomplishment on Lateralus that comes from Undertow and Aenima.

But it's just not as fascinating as that weird, ugly-ass semimechanical baby that is Ænima which can also be beautiful, when looked at the right way.

Different kinds of beauty... both appealed me, even if as I'm growing older and more mature, I feel more connected to Lateralus. There is also on Lateralus a strong link with Asian music and philosophies (and Ethnic musics in general) which I love...

I don't have anything against the way Parabol and Parabola compliment each other, Parabola, to me, just feels like a more mainstream, poppier song compared to the rest of Lateralus. Complete with catchy riffs and chorus.

Yep, but there was plenty of catchy riffs and chorus on Aenima... Stinkfist, 46 & 2, Eulogy, Aenima... Being in the middle of a 9 minute song, I don't really feel the "chorus" in Parabola. It's just another part of the journey (which is obviously "poppier" than the rest of Lateralus)... but Parabol, or the end of parabola with all these progressive riffs have nothing to do with pop music, and the structure of the song erase all the poppiest aspects of the song.

Again, not saying it's not a GOOD song, it's just up to the level of the rest of Lateralus.

I thought the same for a long time, but now (since the video I guess) I believe it's one of the best songs on Lateralus. It swifts through a great variety of moods and rhythm... In live versions it takes all its dimension. But it's probably their most obviously prog-rock song (even if I'm not sure many prog-rock bands could write Parabol).

I still think H. and Jimmy in particular have fantastic lyrics, and

H. and Jimmy were hints to what Maynard would write on Lateralus... same style of writing. They are my favorite lyrics on Aenima.

I'm not even sure why I'm posting this - I'm just glad someone stopped saying: "People like Ænima better because it's more aggressive." Probably because I'm a hypocritical ass that thinks that everyone should agree with me when I say that Ænima was hypnotic and trippy.

Of because it's always fun to talk about this great band? Lateralus and Aenima are both masterpieces anyway.

stephenlc
02-16-2004, 07:15 AM
The first tool CD I got was Undertow. I fell in love with it right away. I liked the hard aggressive sound. Then when I got their second album, I really liked the slower more caotic sounds. Laturalus, umm I was like WTF is this the first time I listened to it. The second time I laided down by myself, and said omg this album is jus beautiful.

LabRat404
02-17-2004, 04:01 PM
The first tool CD I got was Undertow .... Then when I got their second album, ....

Undertow was their second album. you forget Opiate.

Raivenn
03-03-2004, 07:53 AM
Oddly, i bought LAteralus back when it came out in 2001, impulse buy after not being able to get Schism out of my head. I would put it on, and listen to Schism first, then i'd put it back to the beginning, and for some odd reason i would always fall asleep before making it past Parabol. Then i'd wake up andi swear i didn't rememer a thing.
So i just figured, boring.
Then just this past October of 03 i got Aenima and it blew my mind. Then i had to go back to my house (i'm in the dorms) and dig up Lateralus from where it was collecting dust. I figured, maybe i missed something the first time around. Boy did i. Lateralus as a complete album, is just the ultimate. I call it my album of hope lol. It's a transcendent experience, and that's what i listen to when i want to be uplifted.
Don't get me wrong though, i love all the albums, including Opiate with a passion. They all just take me to distinct places, which is one of the reasons i love Tool so much, n matter what mood i'm in, i can take one album and throw it in, and just be in that place without ever having to interrupt to skip any tracks. </rambling>
:)

TheAbstraction
03-04-2004, 08:38 PM
undertow IS actually the first album. opiate is an EP. i like to call it an album aswell though, coz its so good! but it ISNT an album.

Mehhico
03-04-2004, 10:21 PM
[QUOTE=dischordance]Ænima just seems like a soundtrack to the movie in my head.QUOTE]

That is one of the most beautiful things I have heard about Ænima. And so true, so very ture.


Take care,
Andy


p.s. Take out the "just" and it would be perfect. ;)

christ oxide
03-31-2004, 02:39 PM
I still take Aenima as my favorite. Maybe it's the negative/peaceful vibe that come from it. I tend to feel that Aenima musically fits my feelings better than the rest of them. I like Lateralis, but it's my least favorite of Tool's. That's right, I said it.

MrMcPheezy
03-31-2004, 02:44 PM
Ok. This thread is still on topic. I'm here to fix that.

christ oxide
03-31-2004, 02:46 PM
no, i was just digging around.

crow011
03-31-2004, 02:53 PM
mcfeces smells like his mother . . .

christ oxide
03-31-2004, 02:55 PM
so its his mom that been in his ass this whole time?

MrMcPheezy
03-31-2004, 03:11 PM
This is much better.

crow011
03-31-2004, 04:04 PM
hey, get in the "gregory wholwend" thread - there is a great flame war just starting up . . .

lets fan the flames . . .

ÆnimaticEnigma
04-02-2004, 10:09 PM
this is really interesting, because i would argue that a perfect circles new one is in the similar vein as lateralus . . .

its a lot more complex and a little harder to get in to, just like lateralus was . . .

remember, too, that most fans were expecting another aenima, or at least an extension of it . . . a lot of people (and id actually argue most people) were expecting the same thing with thirteenth step . . .

people dont like lateralus because its not what the expected, or what they like about TOOLs previous albums . . . the same applies to thirteenth step . . .

its either that, or these same people simply have no fucking taste or class what-so-ever . . .

peace and blessed be . . .

crow011 . . .

Tool still retains the sophisticated manner in which is: Tool. APC just seems to be experimenting, and dragging themselves to a lighter air on the music... more... new, clear cut. APC's 13th stepseems to just be in such a dramatically different direction that mer de noms...

Meanwhile... Lateralus and Ænima aren't too far off, if you look at it. Ænima is like more of a punishment, negative icing on the album as opposed to Lateralus, which is the positive version, the motivational...

IMO, the people who liked Tool for its sophistication liked Lateralus the most... but those metal heads who couldn't even understand the Fibonacci Sequence or come up with a damn thought of their own couldn't grasp the true meaning inside Lateralus.

I agree with what you said... but I don't like 13th step too much, and i LOVE Lateralus... even though I mostly listen to my albums alltogether, if I had to choose one, Lateralus all the way.

BTW my friend agrees with the above paragraph... good post though, you are right, it's mostly the weeding out between those who liked the mood and those who liked the meaning...

ÆnimaticEnigma
04-16-2004, 02:17 PM
TOOL is the best band in the history of mandkind...and any true fan would like TOOL no matter what, or how they produce their music.

" "

neo_taboolie
04-19-2004, 10:13 PM
When I have time, I'll post in here later...

Good thread though, just needed to post this to mentally remember it...

neo_taboolie
04-23-2004, 11:24 PM
Ænima is like more of a punishment, negative icing on the album as opposed to Lateralus, which is the positive version, the motivational...
Are you suggesting that Ænima is primarily Tool's negative emotions being reflected through their music? So you think that H. is perhaps more emotionally sad and lamented then Lateralus' third track The Patient?

I'm not sure I agree with what you're saying. If that's what you're suggesting... I mean, I can understand the negative moments on Lateralus to be an acceptance of life and the consequences of communication... So perhaps they are trying to put it in a more positive way instead of calling on "meteor showers and tidal waves..."

Still I don't consider the two albums to be polar opposites... Perhaps Lateralus is an obvious progression on the themes and issues that are discovered, uncovered or explored (depending on how far you believe Tool had evolved their music at that point in time)... But what you seem to be saying is that they are using one to cancel out the other, to split and divide people into liking one or the other...
it's mostly the weeding out between those who liked the mood and those who liked the meaning...
Therefore, based on what I said earlier, I can easily say that I like both to a great degree... I can't pick one as being better than the other, because I believe that Lateralus simply evolved on a few basic themes that were put forward in Ænima... I would suggest that Lateralus wouldn't exist without Ænima preceeding it...
That's why I like both of them... they are different, and in a sence, Lateralus wouldn't be as beautiful if Aenima, if this duality, this confrontation, hadn't exist before it. There is a sence of accomplishment on Lateralus that comes from Undertow and Aenima.
I fully agree with you and the others that explored this idea...

Amethyst Believer
04-24-2004, 04:18 AM
Aenima always sounded great from the first time I listened to it. Even though I had no grasp of the tracks or meanings, the riffs just carried the album through for me. It got better and better as I got more into Tool, watched the videos, read the lyrics, but I think I've got about all I can out of it now. (I mean in understanding, I still love listening to it.)

Lateralus, on the other hand, I originally didn't get at all. The tracks blended together, the rhythms confused me and I couldn't get what the album was, as a whole. I think it was about the 5th or 6th time I listened through it started to make some sense. I have been listening to it for 3 years now, since it came out, and every time it means more. I still have a lot to take from it and I think the sheer depth lost me. I am starting to find my way.

I still don't have a favourite Tool album, although Opiate is fucking amazing. But so are Undertow, and Aenima, and Salival, and Lateralus. Hmmm... I think it depends on my state of mind at the time.

mr. id
05-01-2004, 11:28 PM
okay...whoever would call me a metal head for liking aenima more than lateralus needs to consider doing one thing...listening to ticks and leeches and triad. tell me that those songs aren't some of tool's heaviest ever. i will laugh in your face after i e-spit on you. as i've said before, aenima is my heart and lateralus is my soul. besides, aenima just so happens to be my favorite order of songs ever made. not just the order, you know. the songs. every minute beat of every measure every note every second, minute, hour and seventeen point five minutes of aenima is the best music i've ever heard. some days it stays on repeat in my car. i am also a musician. what first drew me to tool was my fascination with the world coming to an end, our eminent (and unavoidable) extinction as a species, and evolution. i was one of the lucky few to view the aenema video before salival (and everyone else i've ever known), and quickly drew that conclusion. i bought the album the next day and have been in love ever since. but to say that you don't love lateralus as well?... that's similar to loving cool and not whip.

mr. id

NOeggs23
05-31-2004, 03:48 PM
from wut ive seen is that anyone who loves this style of music is going to have to love undertow and aenima, the energy and style is so strong. But lateralus is definatley a cd that the energy is hidden so u have to wait until about the third or fouth hearing to find that energy. I still love aenima more, but lateralus has definatley left its true and great impression on tool fans. The first time i heard "Reflection" i thought it was overwritten and trying to be a new 3rd eye but after giving it a few more chances i found what it means deeper into it and now i think its equal if not better than 3rd eye. Same with the grudge, i was dispaointed the first time i heard unlike stinkfist but now after giving it a few more goes i think its ALOT better than stinkfist. This is probably why Tool is so special.

Parabowl
06-04-2004, 04:19 PM
I think tool is great. (notice period)

i also think tool is good. we should bone

Parabowl
06-04-2004, 04:22 PM
from wut ive seen is that anyone who loves this style of music is going to have to love undertow and aenima, the energy and style is so strong. But lateralus is definatley a cd that the energy is hidden so u have to wait until about the third or fouth hearing to find that energy. I still love aenima more, but lateralus has definatley left its true and great impression on tool fans. The first time i heard "Reflection" i thought it was overwritten and trying to be a new 3rd eye but after giving it a few more chances i found what it means deeper into it and now i think its equal if not better than 3rd eye. Same with the grudge, i was dispaointed the first time i heard unlike stinkfist but now after giving it a few more goes i think its ALOT better than stinkfist. This is probably why Tool is so special.

grudge is the weirdest song on the album, nobody ever agrees but i think it sounds like it could come off of aenima, some of aenemas tunes like h..46..3rd eye that usually sound a bit different each time you listen to them depending on whatever mood, drugs, but feels like almost everytime i hear it its like a new song

Penguin
06-13-2004, 01:04 PM
The whole album just doesn't sound as good as the others, that's the reason I don't like it. I don't care about all that deep meaning and messages and spirituality bullshit. I think it ruins the listening experience when you get that into it.

SmallWangedMan
06-13-2004, 04:50 PM
I prefer Lateralus, by a small but significant margin.

Harold
06-14-2004, 12:38 PM
we should take a poll

MrMcPheezy
06-14-2004, 03:01 PM
we should take a poll



Genius.

Harold
06-14-2004, 04:57 PM
Genius.

thanks

EonBlue-Simon
06-17-2004, 10:11 AM
I prefer Lateralus, some time ago I prefered Aenima but then I started listening more to lateralus and find out that it's just more musical then Aenima, there are more instruments and a lot influences of other cultures. I still like Aenima very much but I think Lateralus is a great step forward for Tool. Does someone agree?

Circe
06-18-2004, 09:55 AM
Lateralus was the 1st tool album I bought. And, I didn't like it at 1st, songs were too long, too atmospheric for me. I wasn't ready for it. Then I bought AEnima and LOVED it, I listened to it almost religiously. But, as I've gotten older, and less angry with the world, I've come to like Lateralus more. I've been very much into the study of occult topics, and i've seen themes repeated in this album. I could just be reaching on that, but anyway, on to my point: All preferences are due to life experience, that colors everything you see. People who don't like Lateralus just aren't there yet.

Nirvanoid68
06-19-2004, 03:14 PM
This just makes me laugh.

Not one Tool fan seems to place Undertow as their favorite album besides me.

Ah well.

I appreciate the musical quality and lyrical depth of Lateralus, but it's just not what I'm looking for. Especially not now. However, every song on undertow speaks to me within my own perception of the song, and the lyrics have potential to help me through some bullshit that I go through every day. Lateralus doesn't do that for me.

It's not the anger and agression that I miss. It's the deep sadness and lament.

Actually, now that I think about it, I find a lot of things funny.

Like how the starter of this thread, after openly admitting being opposed to people who like anything before Lateralus, named his s/n after a song on Aenima.

H.Cornerstone
07-08-2004, 12:12 AM
I really like all Tools albums. But Aenima is their best one. not a discredit to Lateralus at all, Its a great album, but Aenima had more variation to it, and more songs. With Aenima you have slow songs like 46-2, Eulogy, and H. But then you had fast songs like Stinkfist, Aenima and Jimmy. Lateralus its all one type of songs and not much variation. Which in its case, isnt that bad of a thing. Overall, I like Aenima better because youo have more songs, and all tool songs are great so that is a good thing, and amazing songs like Eulogy.

Et in Arcadia Ego
07-08-2004, 09:33 PM
Look, there's always people that started listening to Tool because of Lateralus or Ænima or even Undertow... And those are the albums that they relate to the best or respect the most... That's what they believe the "true" Tool to sound like...

So then when another album comes out that contradicts the sound of previous or latter albums then it becomes a chance to have Ænima vis a vis Lateralus - for example - as the better or "proper" sounding Tool...

As far as I'm concerned, it's all relative to when you started listening to Tool and also how much effort you have put into sampling all their music... It's easy to dismiss something the first time, because it's different from expectations... (I would consider that a good thing...) But it's harder to appreciate Tool's versitility and just appreciate all the albums...


I just love 'em all...

cultus
08-24-2004, 04:21 AM
God I hate it how people say 'This song is "better", this album is "better"'. You can say "I like this one better...." or "I think this album is better" but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and until you fully comprehend that concept you shouldn't post any comparisons. And that is not an opinion, that is a fuking fact.

SmallWangedMan
08-24-2004, 04:42 AM
Wrong.

Parabowl
09-06-2004, 09:35 AM
opiate undertow and aenima are incredible but they are also negative these albums heal people that are negative, Lateralus has only one song that is not warm, conforting, and/or healing. Who wouldn't like the song Reflection, it gives me chills and when I listen to it I can make the night sky change colors

how is aenima negative.. or opiate even.. i guess you could say undertow and salival are negtive.. aenima though?

exojjl
10-02-2004, 12:49 AM
I have for the longest time always loved Lateralus the most out of all of their albums. But the other day i was listening to Aenema high, and man, I learned to love that album in a different just as much as Lateralus. If you just really sit there and just listen intently to it, you'll feel it so intensely. I was listening to everything on the album, but paying most attention to the guitars. Its so dream like.......really hard to explain, but i can feel and almost see the music, its just a whole nother world. one thing it almost feels like your being strung out. The way Adam uses the pick scrapes on the guitar, and from what I remember i believed he used some whammy bar on some songs. I think that its about using negativity and or anger for self healing or purifying, or just leading away from anger. Like in the self titled song "wash it all away" to me thats leading into the content on Lateralus. Like wash away all this anger, negativity.
From what im seeing with their albums is that kinda in a way each album isnt about just one thing, but like the end of each album sets forth for the next album.
So the song Aenema is about healing, then it goes into that on lateralus.
I believe we can find what a future albums theme could be about right in Lateralus.
I just had all these thoughts, but it was hard to write them down good.

Im sorry guys, I get kinda off topic? One thought lead to another, then to another.

exojjl
10-02-2004, 12:53 AM
hmmm
how the fuck is Reflection negative!!!
sure, the song my sound negative, well maybe not even negative, I would say more "uncomfortable" negative to me is a bit off.
Because i think the song is about self reflection. Looking at yourself, and either wanting to change and having the ability to.

nipploleon dynomight
01-29-2005, 10:20 PM
TOOL is the best band in the history of mandkind...and any true fan would like TOOL no matter what, or how they produce their music.

Some people spell tool in all capitals.

jonathan2994
02-20-2005, 12:31 PM
You're generalising - and condemning others as you do it.

Personally, I prefer Aenima. Not just a little, either - I genuinely think Aenima is hugely more impressive than Lateralus. That's just personal opinion.
Am I a metal head?
I don't know. Tool is the only metal band I've ever actually listened to properly.
Was I expecting another Aenima?
Probably not, because Lateralus was my first Tool album.
And, it was great, originally. Lateralus really kicked my ass and opened me up to music in a whole new way (and enlightened me to the fact that metal isn't the retarded genre I always took it for).
Aenima, on the other hand, I absolutely loathed first time I heard it. Harsh, aggressive, dark industrial noise was what it sounded like.
Maybe that's why I prefer it now - it took me weeks, months of repeatedly playing Aenima before I started to appreaciate it. And even now, well over a year on, I'm still making sense of all of it - it grew on me like you wouldn't believe.
My love for Lateralus, on the other hand, diminished with repeated playings, despite the technical superiority of it all - it just didn't, in my opinion, have the depth of Aenima. Or the raw, spiritual emotion.
Now, it's still a great album, but it wouldn't even make my top five (while Aenima would definately be number one).
And, you asked, "why?"
Sorry. There's no accounting for taste, is there?

Aenima is why I love Tool. It's a fucking masterpiece. Lateralus, in my opinion, is just a great album. The Kid A to Aenima's OK Computer, if you will.
I don't know why that particular opinion would make me ignorant in any way.

I feel the same way, but opposite. I see Lateralus and Kid A in the same way you see AEnima and OK Computer.

Fortunate Son
02-20-2005, 01:45 PM
Choosing between Ænima and Lateralus, for me at least, would be impossible. Each one appeals to a different part of my personality, and I wouldn't have it any other way.