"infinity" you say?

[simon the magician]

All said and done, I have come to the realization that I don't know a damn thing but one thing. God? Reality? Conciousness? BEYOND MY COMPREHENSION. I doubt that this highly ordered universe (and yes, it is ordered, it is cyclic) could have developed from chaos without an organizer, much like a pile of lumber will most likely never become a house without a builder. Sure we live in a world of wave functions, minima and maxima, Schroedinger's cat and all that mind-fucking...shit (for lack of a better word).....but I would just as soon believe the Pope to be God's diplomat as I would believe this universe to be....simply.....here, as in "damn, we got lucky!".

Is there a "father" God to us? If so, does he care? Was God like a crystal that got shattered, and all the splinters are you and I, destined to reunite? Maybe there is more than one god.....maybe there is a true god, and a flawed creator god, like gnostics such a Jesus thought. Perhaps our ego is the "image" of him, and our purpose is to either defeat, "crucify" our ego, with wisdom/gnosis as our guide and hence, defeat our creator and transcend into a unity with the true god, the ONENESS, the holy reality. Maybe this life IS heaven......sorely disappointing for the sheep if it is......or maybe it is hell, a prison cell.

I really don't know, and I couldn't care less at this point.
What it comes down to is that you are here. You don't know for certain if your will is free or not, all you know is that you have to make choices and recieve the consequences. You create responsibilities and then it is up to you to live up or not. Physics tells you that ANYTHING is possible and all outcomes are real until the observation is made, then all other wave function collapse and you are left with one. From that one another, a separate infinity of possibilities develop, some very likely, some very unlikely.....who the fuck knows. Most religions tell you this, be it science who explains it through photons and electrons....or christianity who explains it through belief in Christ.

Whoopdie-fuckin-dooo!!! After that rant, what are we left with? What we already knew from the age of 7.

Well one thing I can tell you, though I can't prove it.....you can read up on it and decide for yourself (cosmology is some hair-pulling shit, so be careful).....is that the way things are looking, our universe will shrink, and shrink, and shrink............................................ ..........and shrink until it is this one, confined point (probably within another)...and when that one point can no longer hold itself-----BANG! Here we go again.

Spiraling out- we are recreated. Hot liquidy soup with some bacteria swimming about to dinosaurs to neanderthals to you reading this post. Over, and Over, and Over, and Over again.

Infinity.

The unknown?- where our conciousness fits amidst this. Perhaps psychic abilities, ESP, deja vu occur because YOU HAVE LIVED THIS EXISTANCE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN....with only one constant remaining throughout......god/thought/conciousness. Perhaps there is an escape............shit, I HOPE there is an escape- Jesus and Buddha say so...but ultimately......I don't fucking know.

Suicide not being an option ( We would really hate to put our moms through that ), we should be left with a realization- that MAYBE there is a chance to either transcend, or if not at least change the pattern. Maybe we have to try doing it together.........I just don't know...but I choose to believe in the latter option.....do what we can to make this life better for ourselves and for those around us.........

BECAUSE INFINITY IS A FUCKING-LONG TIME TO BE MISERABLE!

[JTCrace]

I agree, a very thoughtful essay. I really liked the despair in your tone, it makes you sound very, very human. I won't respond to everything though, just to one item.

A man said once that the only way out is the way through. Related to this saying, I have come across a couple creational myths and there seems to be a common thread between the two: the idea of entrapment. In Genesis, the Lord God (or Demiurgos, for us Gnostics) told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate the fruit. They ate the fruit. They did not die. God had lied to them. They were tricked. In Egyptian mythology, Seth made a lead coffin and went to a party. People were drunk at this party and he asked them to try getting in the coffin, to see if anyone would fit. When Osiris got in, Seth shut the coffin, covered it with lead and threw it straight into the fucking ocean. So, if we were somehow trapped, if our spirits were trapped here, then the only way out of this trap is figure how the fuck you got trapped in the first place.

My point here is this: amongst intelligent, discerning, somewhat evolved people one can find a common sentiment. They have multitudinous ways of saying one thing: "Holy shit, how the fuck did I get HERE and what the fuck do I do to get OUT!" (Like Simon's essay above) It is like when you first awaken from a dream and you are not sure who you are or where you are at. It's bewilderment. That is why Maynard sings that he is drawn to whatever will bewilder him. Because where there is bewilderment, where there is mystery lies the potential for truth and awakening.



I know one thing for certain: this life shall be my last here. I have had enough. I have found the path. I am coming home.

And to "All_One_Mind": a Bodhisattva is a being who vows to never enter into Nirvana until all sentient beings are saved. And the claim by Nagarjuna is that ultimately, Nirvana and Samsara are of the same substance--they are the same thing. Therefore, the Bodhisattva is the ideal. Then let me post you a question: why did the Buddha enter Nirvana? Was he wrong? Was he selfish? My answer: To say that Nirvana and Samsara are the same thing is bullshit semantics. One cannot truly talk about awakening. One cannot truly put into language and experience that which goes beyond human comprehension. Why do you think the Siddhartha was reluctant to teach? Because he knew that what he had experienced, the state he was in, was beyond words. How could he communicate something that was essentially ineffable? So the word or the concept or the idea of Nirvana--IS NOT THE STATE OF NIRVANA! The state of Nirvana is not the same as the state of worldly existence. The words, or concepts, or ideas may be inter-related (everything in this universe is) but "basically" they are not the same. So, could you explain yourself a little bit further as far as Jesus being "the last Bodhisattva."?

[Etamina]

Of course, I cannot say that my beliefs are any more correct or probable then yours, or his, or that pencil's. But in response to the idea that this life, and our existence is this eternal cycle that will continue to repeat the same events again and again infinitely, I must ask: What is the meaning? Where is the progression? The purpose? You must take patterns that exists right here, in your immediate realm, and apply them to the universe. In everything there is progression. Evolution, interaction (time), movement... Where is the progression to our existence if we never get anywhere. I am a firm believer that the journey is the most important and ONLY part of our existence (that is, there will be no end), but to say that we will just be walking in circles, going neither up nor down, in or out, is just foolish to me. In order for something to exist it must have a purpose, and it must be balanced. If there was no purpose in our existence, we simply wouldn't be. And so, if we can conclude that there must be a reason for us to be here, then we naturally will ask what that reason is. Look around you. Notice everything that you are doing. Live in this moment, don't rehearse the future or relive the past. Take into account everything that NOW has to offer. That, I believe, is our purpose. Because by takikng everything, whether they seem to be positive or negative, we can better ourselves, which is bettering everything. Because we are all connected. We are all one mind.

[AllforUnity]

Well said Etamina...

You know, there are alot of questions in life that we think about...and that we, most of the time, cannot answer. The thing to do is to just live your life as productive as you can...because we'll find the answer someday. We just have to wait for it. We shouldn't live in anger. We shouldn't be bias against other people (or their ideas). Like Etamina said, we're all connected. We are all one mind.

[infinity+1]

there is n reality beyond your perception.

[infinity+1]

er that n was sposed to be a no.

[RRed]

I really don't think God lied to Adam and Eve.... The simple fact that we don't see beyond the words 'you will die' is a testament to the very fact that we aren't ready to understand the gravity of our own consciousness. See we were once one mind, but our awareness has placed a rift, a schism, between a selfless figurative body of humanity and the selfish human. Why do you think they clothed them selves imediately after eating the fruit? Because they became aware of the seperation and difference of thier own essence in opposed to each other. And why didn't they realized before hand that they were naked? Because they didn't see them selves as 'me adam, you eve', they saw them selves you are me, just as I am you. It seems to me that it mirrors the animal world and the balance that it maintains, even in life and death; one mind, one spirit, balanced.

But on the same hand, I would lean towards the gnostics and Manicheanism to a certain extent. God in selflessness, in light of the eternal balance and need there of, displaced his own light and essence which manifested in this world we see here. He/she had to do this in order to exist and it is ordained by the balance that this takes place. Free will was minimized but inevitable and there fore necessary for this first movement to come back around. The Rapture, the Oversoul signifies the completion once again of this cycle; ascension into the God consciousness, the Ain-soph, the nothing, the everything.... Spiraling out. 46-2 And so our Free Will becomes the radical in the equation. What we chose to do? What we chose to think? How we chose to live? Because you see we are God. But at this point the balance dictates the appropriate measure of our many 'free wills' and there will be a time when this consciouness will ascend without evey human being because it has determined that there is no likelyhood or reason then to wait for those who will not change.

And the concept of infinity lies in that the balance never ceases to exist.

RRed

[Etamina]

Uh... I see what you're saying but I think perceive was the wrong word. Because right now, I can't perceive what's going on in China, but that doesn't mean that it's not reality. What I think you meant was, there is no reality beyond what can be experienced. (To perceive is to be aware of, and think of a coma patient - awarenss doesn't determine reality.) But then you have to take into consideration whether reality is absolute or personal. This whole idea, though, just seems to be something that won't have an answer because you can't prove anybody's opinion about the matter right or wrong. So why bother? I suppose it could be entertaining, but usually when I realize that I won't get anywhere, I don't worry about it, as it only produces frustration. But as for my own views, it seems to me that reality is simply anything that is being experienced. So it makes it both absolute and personal. Because two beings cannot exists at the same point in space and time, no two beings can have the same reality as another. They are experiencing something different at all times. This is getting ridiculously semantical but I think you get my point. Conversations like this used to go on for hours in my head... Never got me anywhere, but it made me more analytical and curious.

[AllforUnity]

Well worded...good entry. I guess that's all I can really say about that...

[regal lover]

. I dont know why we are here but i know that im here to LEARN and ENHANCE THE NOW and a crucial part of this means being able to ask question- is this real? I dont agree with you Rred its possible that every human that is alive now can be saved, the intensification is growing and the choice is simple if we trust in ourselves

[AllforUnity]

Well nobody knows...why would you want to know? The secrets of life are supposed to be secrets...it makes life worth living.

[Etamina]

. I dont agree with you Rred its possible that every human that is alive now can be saved, the intensification is growing and the choice is simple if we trust in ourselves


Saved from what? This life? And if we are indeed "saved", where would we be then? I'm not trying to patronize you, but I think if you were to analyze what you're saying more, you would realize that humans are not designed to be satisfied. So there's no way that we can ever be "saved". No matter where you put us, we will always want more. Because we know it's there. We know that things can always get "better". And if we were to become eventually satisfied. WHOLLY satisfied, then we would cease to progress. We would not invent, innovate, adapt, dream, wonder or anything. We would become static. We wouldn't even move. Think of it on a smaller scale: Let's say I'm standing in one spot, not moving at all, not breathing, not anything, but I was completely satisfied. I would die, would I not? In a way, we need to want things, because if everything were totally happy with what was happening, everything would die out. Weird concept, huh? I've actually never thought about this until this reply, so there might be some flaws in what I'm saying, but I think it's pretty profound. The lesson? Stop complaning - It's that discomfort that keeps you alive.

Also, since everything would become static, interaction would stop, making time stop. Because time is interaction. If anyone doesn't understand this, don't hesitate to PM me if you're curious.

Huh... I should write a song about this...


I got a little sidetracked, sorry.


-Etamina

[AllforUnity]

l'd like to see your interpretations Etamina.

[JTCrace]

I know what you are saying Etamina. It's the balance between wantingness and havingness. If we had everything, we certainly wouldn't want it anymore. But also, we can only really have things temporarily, since every-thing of this world comes then goes. If we really saw things as they are instead of what we wanted them to be, I don't think anyone would want anything anymore. There is a triangle involved:

* "attachment__not-knowingness__thirst."

We as beings become "attached" to things of this world (bodies, other beings, ideas, planets, etc.) because we do "not know" that they are transitory and hence "not-I", therefore "thirst" (tanha) develops. But I wonder: are we attached because we do not know, or do we not know because we are attached?

But the great things about triads (triangles) is that if you increase or decrease one, the others increase or decrease as well. So the more you know, the less attached you become, and the less thirst you will experience.

Opposition creates life. Who would want to win if there wasn't the possibility of losing? Who would want to live if there wasn't the possibility of dying?

[RideTheSpiral614]

You know, I don't think that we will ever be able to fully comprehend any "higher power" or ever even have the slightest idea as to what the fuck is really going on. So, you know, everyone should just be nice to eachother. I know everyone has heard it before but it is so true. People just need to love, keep digging for your truth. Just find someone to love along the way.


With all my love for you,
Unitarian Liar

[g-bay-be]

Wait... i have a question for all this attachment crap... if we want to reach nirvana or whatever... aren't we having yet another attachment. and being attached to the idea of heaven or nirvana??? One of the teaching of Siddhartha Guantama was to not ask about the after life because the answer will never be known... so why wirry about it... As for seeking knowledge... it is great for you otherwise we are going no where as a race... we are just getting stupider and lazier

[g-bay-be]

WAIT!!!! i got it.... I was listening to opiate a few minutes ago and i listened to sweat.

"Seems so familiar
seems like i have been here before
feels like im slippin.
into a dream within a dream"

See... he's going through it. its started over... it so familiar and we are all one mind in one dream